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Caught on tape, TWH trainer, ABC reports tonight.......


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#21 WanderingStar

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:19 AM

Agreed. This is the primary reason my CEP horses will go Hunter. So not worth the stupid shoeing. I mean really, the Arab is known for it's versatility but tell me, how many CEP, EP, and Park horses do you see going down the trail? With a Hunter, the competition is great, you can cross over to SH, and usually they make great hackers on the trail . JMO...

If you are FB friends with Lori Foster, she took Mister Vegaz home after nationals and rode him out on trails. As a three year old. I used to get my English horse in shape by running him up the steep hills around our place in Montana.

I had big gripes when our HA CEP horse was over-shod at nationals. I don't ever want to see them shod in such a manner that they can't be turned out during the day in good weather.

We had a Saddlebred mare that we suspected was cattle-prodded in her stall. If I remember right, the story goes that a groom went in her stall one day without one, clucked at her, and she turned on him. Can't blame her. Its just sick what some people will do.

I think the most disturbing thing about the story isn't that they caught the one guy. Buried down in the article, it mentions that of 52 horses tested for caustic substances, EVERY single one came back positive. So, every single trainer is soring their horses and we crucify one guy? Hang them all out to dry.
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#22 TripleHFarm

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:09 AM

I wish I hadn't watched it. If that man was standing in front of me I'd have to beat his ass
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#23 tiki-bird

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:26 AM

As others have pointed out, soring has been happening in the TWH industry for decades, and is the only breed that requires federal authorities to attempt to legislate moral behavior. I've posted this before, but will again, for a little insight for those of you who ask what kind of people could this to horses. About 5 years ago I think it was, the USDA agents found soring in all but 3 horses entered in the Grand Championship class and disqualified them. The 3 eligible trainers refused to show, I guess as an act of solidarity. The federal employees were advised by the local law enforcement to leave the Celebration showgrounds for their own safety, as they didn't think they could handle the angry crowd. If even the spectators are willing to risk arrest for bodily harming a fed doing his job, do you think they or the industry they embrace care about the welfare of the horses?

Also, someone asked about this guy's employees. Here's the local piece with more info. Oh, the beating on the head while the horse is in cross-ties is called "stewardship," of all things. It's supposed to cause the horse to become desensitized to pain, for when the inspectors palpate pasterns/hooves for evidence of soring. Sick.
http://www.t-g.com/story/1821802.html

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#24 BFF

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:49 AM

Tiki Bird- Thank you for letting me know what it is they were attempting to "train" the horse to do.
Well not thank you because really I already am not a fan of most human beings, this is another
thing to put in the memory banks.

Not only is it hard for me to fathom the kind of person who thought of this "training method" that apparently
its an industry standard.

However having been involved in the Arabian show scene since 1978 nothing really surprises me as to what folks
will allow all for a .69 cent ribbon. Its why I gave up the main ring stuff in the 90's. It was not a pond I wanted to play in
any longer.

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#25 chrisbailey

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:06 AM

Disgusting and many times for a $1.99 ribbon as pointed out on the report....not always done for BIG money. It reminds me of the endurance horses I used to see who were ran to death for a prize of a hoof pick. The whole thing makes me sick!!!!

#26 fyreflii7

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:29 AM

Agreed. This is the primary reason my CEP horses will go Hunter. So not worth the stupid shoeing. I mean really, the Arab is known for it's versatility but tell me, how many CEP, EP, and Park horses do you see going down the trail? With a Hunter, the competition is great, you can cross over to SH, and usually they make great hackers on the trail . JMO...


I would like to respectfully disagree with your assessment of the Saddle Seat discipline. There is not a horse that I've ridden in recent years who wouldn't be an appropriate mount on the trail. They are well trained, intelligent, careful and know where to put their feet.

Years ago, while working for a BNT, I witnessed him taking previous and future National Champions out around the property for a stroll after their workouts. This was a daily occurrence, and the horses enjoyed it. Not hard-core trail riding, but cruising around the sprawling country farm. I know of another BNT that does this as well. Without going into detail, nearly every horse I handle on a daily basis has and will trail ride in the woods and on the beach.

As for shoeing - if a horse can't trot, no concoction of shoes will make it trot. I've been on both sides of the spectrum and have dealt with the wedges and bands as well as a simple weighted shoe with leather pad. Folks, those gadgets don't make a horse trot! They may enhance and modify the breakover point and dictate the path the foot follows - but not enough to make a horse pick their knees up any higher! If they can trot - they will with training and conditioning.

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#27 ladycascabel

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:51 AM

I won't watch the video, stuff like that makes me nauseous. Just let me add that I've been aware of the abuse in the TWH industry since 1966. You'd sure think that in all that time they would have been forced to clean up their act.

Where and when did you see endurance horses "ran to death" for a hoof pick???

Disgusting and many times for a $1.99 ribbon as pointed out on the report....not always done for BIG money. It reminds me of the endurance horses I used to see who were ran to death for a prize of a hoof pick. The whole thing makes me sick!!!!


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#28 Comstock Lode

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:01 AM

If people didn't pay this man he wouldn't have a job beating horses . As bad as he is there are people actually paying him to do this to their horses , to me they are are as bad if not worse .

#29 BFF

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:49 AM

If people didn't pay this man he wouldn't have a job beating horses . As bad as he is there are people actually paying him to do this to their horses , to me they are are as bad if not worse .


Although I do not doubt SOME owners are aware of abuse by their trainers (certainly no one in the TWH industry can believe that the motion their horses has is natural), I do believe the majority are not aware. Either by choice or by the smooth talking of their trainer/salesman. Horse trading is the second oldest profession, with the oldest profession-well being kind of the same thing since very often the end product is the same.

What I have seen done late at night at shows is done late at night for a reason. Of course, so much is done behind the stall drapes but....
the owners are not there. Most trainers do not want hands on owners for this very reason.

Does anyone think that front leg flapping, hind leg dragging motion of our EP horses is natural? If so I do have a bridge in New York I would like to sell you. In 40 years of horse ownership I can also tell you that I certainly can not make my horses look at me the way a top halter horse does- which is why I had BNT's show my horses back in the day in regionals and Nationals...which is why I decided it was not worth the ribbon.

As far as I am concerned we have the smartest and most talented breed of horse there is. A breed with a heart that will give its all for you if you ask. They really don't need improvement via training.

So all of us can be apalled at what we have seen here, when do we start cleaning our own house????

I know I am spitting in the wind, but maybe, just maybe we could change, don't we have the will yet????

I am looking forward to reading the book "Justice for Speedy: A True Horse Story " an expose on the Arabian industry, but I doubt
there will be anything new in it for me.

http://www.amazon.co...37273376&sr=8-1

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#30 dowedoit

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

I am going to respectfully disagree with you BFF. I think many owners know full well what methods their trainers use but choose to turn a blind eye. There are some trainers whose records cannot be swept under the rug - their bad deeds are well documented and they have been punished. Yet there always seems to be a steady stream of horses in that trainer's show string. That tells me people know but will sacrifice the well being of the horse in the pursuit of a buck (in many cases, I don't think it is the ribbon per se that they are after - but the value increase that accompanies wins). I think it would be difficult to not notice the behavior that accompanies abuse. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think I would notice if my horse started acting fearful of people, or a specific person, once it's training began. JMO of course.
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