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Not sure how this happened, but I have three new mares, boy am I in trouble!


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#41 Flairpark

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

Czipper IS Pure Polish!! Doesn't matter about Aswan as his son Palas is PASB. (Which makes all Aswan's foals Polish anyway.)

The key.... go thru the pedigree. If a horse is PASB, do not pay any attention to any ancestors beyond that!

The confusing part of her pedigree is Aladdin who is listed on DataSource as SAHR... But he was definitely PP!!

Well... Heck of a deal! Thanks!
Let us know when you are ready to add a little Flair to your barn.

Becca Taylor
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#42 Metallic36

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:38 PM

AND.. Czamara is Pure Polish as well.. since I have her full sister, I can vouch! ;) The info below is from the Janow Podlaski website pedigree section. Czamara wasn't listed so I pulled this info from my mare Czantoria, full sister. You can go here: http://www.janow.ara...search-form.php and type in Czantoria and you will be able to see the pedigree and where it says (PL) means the horse is registered in the Polish Stud Book.. which includes the entire second generation.

Sire line: Ibrahim d.b. 1899, b. Obdurahm Abdullah, imp. 1907 Antoniny (PL)
Dam line: Mlecha d.b. ~1840, imp. 1845 Jarczowce (PL)


Not sure if you've been here, but you can see photos of your mare's ancestors too.. http://www.allbreedp...e.com/czamara11




#43 grizz

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 02:19 PM

Well, I don't "know" that they are polish, that is just my stab in the dark? They are LOVELY girls regardless of pedigree. I just think it will be fun to know as I feel so out of my element with these lines. Heard of most of them, but where when and why.... I don't know just names floating around in my head :) Polish Egyptian crosses are fun, I think we might try Czamara with my Stallion Houdini this year. He is my avatar. Thanks for looking :)

You love Cable Cowboy? Want to tell me about him? Anything would help :)

The girls are on the site! The photos are AWEFUL though. Poor Czipper has her back end on high ground, front end in a ditch, makes her look funny. Czamara wouldn't look at the camera, and Harmada has a sticker on her! But... they are there with copies of their papers.


They are Polish and Russian. Aswan stood at stud in Russia, but was straight egyptian. Most of the rest of the lines trace back to Poland. These are well bred mares.

#44 Flairpark

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 02:23 PM

AND.. Czamara is Pure Polish as well.. since I have her full sister, I can vouch! ;) The info below is from the Janow Podlaski website pedigree section. Czamara wasn't listed so I pulled this info from my mare Czantoria, full sister. You can go here: http://www.janow.ara...search-form.php and type in Czantoria and you will be able to see the pedigree and where it says (PL) means the horse is registered in the Polish Stud Book.. which includes the entire second generation.

Sire line: Ibrahim d.b. 1899, b. Obdurahm Abdullah, imp. 1907 Antoniny (PL)
Dam line: Mlecha d.b. ~1840, imp. 1845 Jarczowce (PL)


Not sure if you've been here, but you can see photos of your mare's ancestors too.. http://www.allbreedp...e.com/czamara11


Thank you! This just keeps getting better. I really appreciate the information!

They are Polish and Russian. Aswan stood at stud in Russia, but was straight egyptian. Most of the rest of the lines trace back to Poland. These are well bred mares.


Thank you!
Let us know when you are ready to add a little Flair to your barn.

Becca Taylor
Flairpark Pintabians & Arabians

http://www.flairpark.com

flairpark@gmail.com
307-299-1003

#45 Rosealba Farm

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:12 PM

Thank you! This just keeps getting better. I really appreciate the information!



Thank you!



Now you know why everyone was so excited about these girls. Is there anyway to find out about who the buyer was that got the Gondolier daughter? Maybe a rescue up north can get them before it is too late. I wish I could talk to that lady's brother. I would give him a piece of my mind. What a jerk.

Sue

#46 Cassiosum Acres Arabians

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:07 PM

They are Polish and Russian. Aswan stood at stud in Russia, but was straight egyptian. Most of the rest of the lines trace back to Poland. These are well bred mares.


EXACTLY!!! They are Polish/Russian

Not PP
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#47 Flairpark

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:24 PM

Now you know why everyone was so excited about these girls. Is there anyway to find out about who the buyer was that got the Gondolier daughter? Maybe a rescue up north can get them before it is too late. I wish I could talk to that lady's brother. I would give him a piece of my mind. What a jerk.

Sue

I was excited when I saw them. I can't wait to get you guys better pictures!

I doubt it, I wouldn't be surprised if she was already gone unfortunately. But it was the Billings Livestock Comission. Sold on May 23. Loose horses. The gondolier daughter is Naleera, Sale # 1657. Her daughter was Adina, Sale # 1650. You might be able to call and find out, If someone can get them I might be able to lay them away for a tiny bit of time until they can be picked up. Both are registered purebreds. Naleera is Chestnut, Adina is gray. Naleera must have been one heck of a mare in her day, she was showing old age (Skinny, sway backed, the whole show) but she was bright eyed and full of piss and vinegar! She was wooping on any of those big horses that thought they could touch her girls. God I hated to leave her behind, but I figured It made more sense to take the young ones. Adina went to the same guy. Adina is a gray mare, I was told she had some nasty habits (rearing), but I don't think she would be dangerous as a brood mare. That was just my impression though she was sweet when we visited her before the show. Gorgeous mare though. Three was way more than I could/should have taken, or I would have had these girls. I wish I would have known I could have placed them. If I had I would have made it work, but I couldn't take more than I could feed. Still cry when I remember pulling Czamara out and leaving them behind...

Believe it or not the brother just didn't have a clue. He didn't realize it would upset anyone or be mean to the horses. It wasn't done out of malice, but that doesn't make it any less repugnant. He was totally shocked when he found out it was a problem. He was just selling them like unwanted cars to split the price. He didn't want any more of his inheritance going to feed. I am glad I didn't meet him, I don't think I would have conducted myself as a lady.
Let us know when you are ready to add a little Flair to your barn.

Becca Taylor
Flairpark Pintabians & Arabians

http://www.flairpark.com

flairpark@gmail.com
307-299-1003

#48 Macimage

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 05:07 PM

We thought the bid had went high enough that it couldn't be a killer fighting to get her and we were happy to let her go to someone who wanted her. We didn't realize the person who won her was a killer so we went up to the office when we found out and told them " I am not sure what happened, I thought I won this horse and was still bidding but she isn't on my sheet?" And they told me who won her. We cornered him and begged to be let to have her and he made us pay about 5 bid prices higher but he let us get her. We paid him off of the books and then he had her switched over to us. They frown on this, but we couldn't let her get taken once we figured it out.


Wow, that is wonderful that you were able to save her from the killer.

All three are beautiful well bred mares.

Happy Trails~
Joyce

PB Arab 1984-2014 Gelding "Mac" My First Foal (Pictured in my Avatar)
PB Arab 2008 Colt MD Jakk Jamaal
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#49 Flairpark

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 05:22 PM

Wow, that is wonderful that you were able to save her from the killer.

All three are beautiful well bred mares.

Happy Trails~
Joyce


Thank you. The relief in that mare's eyes was wonderful. So hard to leave the others behind though...
Let us know when you are ready to add a little Flair to your barn.

Becca Taylor
Flairpark Pintabians & Arabians

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flairpark@gmail.com
307-299-1003

#50 lunalisa

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 07:14 PM

On another ABN thread, Marsha Parkinson posted this regarding Pure Polish:

"However, to enter into a discussion as to what is pure Polish is certainly a sticky thing, and been done 100,000 times. BUT by Korona definition (condensed), agreed to by an international number of representatives who worked out the definition, is that it is any purebred Arabian bred by or descended from horses used by the State Studs of Poland, and who has been entered into the Polish Arabian Stud Book, or descended from same.

Hence, since *Equifor is bred by the oldest state stud, Janow Podlaski, and whose sire is entered into the Polish stud book, he is definitely considered pure Polish. And, Egyptian blood has been entered into Polish breeding, along with desert, Crabbet, and other blood sources for a long, long time. There is Palas of course, Parma, and others who are Egyptian bred...including Kafifan, who was bred by Mohammed Ali of Egypt, and born in 1916. He was used by Josef Potocki when brought to Polish lands. Egyptian blooded horses do not preclude the resulting horse from being pure Polish. Nor do Crabbet, American, French and so forth. Even those who abhor Palas, still find Egyptian (and other blood sources) in the pedigrees....

Monogramm is not pure Polish by birth either. He is part Polish, part Russian and bred in America. And more of other lines if one goes further back in the pedigree....however, he now falls into the pure Polish category because he was used by the State Studs and entered in the Polish Stud book.

Negatiw, sire of *Bandos, was sired by Naseem....bred by Crabbet in England. Is Negatiw bred totally in Poland....Not a whit...bred in Russia. However, once entered and used by State Studs, he is pure Polish. So if one does not like the definition, then they have to throw out Monogramm, Bandos, Naborr, Arax, Amurath Sahib (ancestors were bred in Germany), *Bask, and then there is not much left.

Hence, the definition serves a purpose, and Monogramm and Negatiw and *Equifor and *Pianissima and generations before and after, are pure Polish.

Now, again, (seems that this is written every 6 months) horses NOT entered into the stud book, but used by the State Studs, such as Nabila B and Enzo, and many others, do not become pure Polish, nor do their offspring bred by others out of pure Polish mares....For, they have been used by Frozen Semen, but they themselves, have not been entered into the Polish Stud book. By the same definition, their FOALS, bred by the State Studs out of pure Polish mares, ARE.

Laheeb is straight Egyptian. He was leased by, used by, the State Studs, and entered into the PASB. He is now considered pure Polish...AND straight Egyptian. If one breeds a pure Polish mare in the US or Europe to Laheeb, the foal is then pure Polish. But his sire isn't, nor are his foals out of anyting but pure Polish mares.

And because Laheeb or Monogramm or *Gazal al Shaqab are entered in the PASB, it does NOT mean that all of their ancestors are pure Polish. ONLY the horse who is entered and used becomes pure Polish."


Interesting, isn't it?

I did NOT know this, how very interesting. Sort of clear as mud in some ways and clear as a cloudless sky in others.
Flairpark, you ROCK! glad these mares saved you and vice versa.
Many blessings forth coming. Can't wait for pics.
Nanaste LunaLisa
Namaste, LunaLisa