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Help with my downward transitions


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#11 kcofholt

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 06:21 PM

"downward" is your problem....your body will follow you mind....say downward, think downward & you are probably going downward & weighing the front your horse..... The transition to a walk requires to start in the rear. Do not look down, think of stopping the hind, hold the front up... yes very much like a sliding stop...just without the shoes, the speed & the amount of collection.
BRANDY SIOUX
"Champion Equine Athletes"
since 1967


#12 Jetstream

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 05:48 PM

When I refer to collection, I do mean the second. My trainer is BIG on getting the horses to work off their rear ends and engage, and I have spent weeks of riding only practicing this. When I move down to the walk, I find all the horses weight will shift to their front end, even if I try to sit deep and keep them engaged.
Today when I rode, I tried all the tricks you have mentioned, but am still meeting resistance. Now, I do know it will take alot of hard work and patience to perfect the trainsition, but I have seen other people, even a 7 year old girl, ride this same horse I was on today and have seen them to come down to the walk much, much faster, even though when they do come down the walk tends to be much more constricted than it is for me when I finally manage to get down to the walk.


That is a video from back at the beginning of June, I think there are a few transitions in there.
*Please, disregard my lower leg position. I have no idea why I decided for that show to ride like that, as I never had before, and haven't since (according to my trainer). Also, I do realize that leaning back when coming down is a terrible thing to do, as it engages the horse to go forward. That was sort of a fpur of the moment "hey, what'll happen if I lean back?" type thing. :)

#13 maryjo

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 05:58 PM

When I refer to collection, I do mean the second. My trainer is BIG on getting the horses to work off their rear ends and engage, and I have spent weeks of riding only practicing this. When I move down to the walk, I find all the horses weight will shift to their front end, even if I try to sit deep and keep them engaged.
Today when I rode, I tried all the tricks you have mentioned, but am still meeting resistance. Now, I do know it will take alot of hard work and patience to perfect the trainsition, but I have seen other people, even a 7 year old girl, ride this same horse I was on today and have seen them to come down to the walk much, much faster, even though when they do come down the walk tends to be much more constricted than it is for me when I finally manage to get down to the walk.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=BwsSUu5t5Ww
That is a video from back at the beginning of June, I think there are a few transitions in there.
*Please, disregard my lower leg position. I have no idea why I decided for that show to ride like that, as I never had before, and haven't since (according to my trainer). Also, I do realize that leaning back when coming down is a terrible thing to do, as it engages the horse to go forward. That was sort of a fpur of the moment "hey, what'll happen if I lean back?" type thing. Posted Image



Ok.

Collection. Collection has NOTHING to do with going slow. It has to do with amplitude of the gaits. More spring. More engagement. More UP.

In your video I see a rider who is sitting in a chair seat. Legs out front. Seat way back in a driving position. Very often in this position you end up driving the horse's back DOWN and forcing the hind end out behind because it has no ability to step forward.

Try to think of KNEELING when you sink into your ankles in the half halt. (Half GO...) That can help you get more over your center of gravity and your horse's center of gravity. Do transitions within the gaits. And between the gaits.
MaryJo

#14 Looking Glass

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 02:28 PM

I watched the video but it was hard to see anything in the video it was a little fuzzy. I agree with the two earlier posts. Your horse is very nice, but seems stiff. Everything in the posts above are very true. To achieve all the things mentioned above really requires a coach. Chair seat is really hard to fix on your own, you need some one telling you when you are correct so you can learn the feel . Also you need someone to tell you when your horse is supple until you learn the feel of it.Balancing and suppling your horse can only work if you have the correct position. I hope I am not offending you by my advice. You are a very elegant rider that can go very far but need someone to help you get even better.

Good luck I wish you all the best
Jennifer
Looking Glass Farms
Calhan Colorado
719-641-6587

#15 Jetstream

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:15 PM

Just to clarify.... the horse in the video is not mine. He is a junior horse from the farm who I was showing as my horse was not yet quite ready. He's a friendly guy, and he tries to please, but for sure has many faults, and really isn't a "dressage" horse at all (hance why I was showing him hunter, in that ancient close contact).

Not to sound defensive (because I really don't want to come across as someone who has no clue what they are talking about and who just screams out backlashes), but I DO know what true collection is, and have practiced it on many of the other horses at the farm, just not this one, because as you can see, he is nowhere near ready. That is simply the only video I have of my riding.
Chair seat. I know this is a problem I had at the time, but we worked all summer after this, and it is pretty much fixed. Also, that saddle sets everyone into chair seat, for what reason I have no clue, it is just very very awkward.

Well, thanks for the advice, I'll certainly use it, at least on Gizmo for sure (the horse in the video). Today I had no problem coming for trot to halt on my horse, but I don't want to be capable of performing a nice transition on only one horse, but on many.

#16 dressage33

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 06:02 PM

Well, getting advice about a riding issue without someone actually being able to see the issue as it occurs is not helpful. Down transitions are nothing like sliding stops or have anything to do with collection nor does a leg yield help. You need a qualified trainer to help you and down transitions are extremely easy to teach. If an Arabian is heavy you are heavy ie stiffness or holding too much. It is great that everyone helps each other out but this is something that has to be worked out in person. The more times you do something wrong the harder it is to fix. When a person learns bad habits it is really hard work to overcome these issues. Instead of beating your head against a wall if you learn now from a good trainer it will be so much easier later. Advise that someone's trainer did for that person at that time may not translate to your horse or your problem.

Dressage is about correct basics not short cuts once you establish correct basics with horse and/or rider everything will fall into place.

Good luck

Patricia

#17 maryjo

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 01:38 PM

Well, getting advice about a riding issue without someone actually being able to see the issue as it occurs is not helpful. Down transitions are nothing like sliding stops or have anything to do with collection nor does a leg yield help. You need a qualified trainer to help you and down transitions are extremely easy to teach. If an Arabian is heavy you are heavy ie stiffness or holding too much. It is great that everyone helps each other out but this is something that has to be worked out in person. The more times you do something wrong the harder it is to fix. When a person learns bad habits it is really hard work to overcome these issues. Instead of beating your head against a wall if you learn now from a good trainer it will be so much easier later. Advise that someone's trainer did for that person at that time may not translate to your horse or your problem.

Dressage is about correct basics not short cuts once you establish correct basics with horse and/or rider everything will fall into place.

Good luck

Patricia


Patricia,

Good advice AS USUAL.

I am here to testify it is a lot easier if you can get good instruction early on so you don't have to spend a lot of time and energy relearning.
MaryJo

#18 Mel Adjusted

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:33 AM

What might be happening is that in your effort to do you everything you need to for a correct transition you are stiffening up and the tension in your body is preventing the transition- the 7 year old is just thinking 'whoa pony'. I got a bit of advice in a lesson once that really made me think about my position differently-try thinking 'toes up'through the transition. If your toes go up, your heels go down, you lift some weight out of your stirrups and your balance goes more to your seat and upper leg, without adding tension in your effort to 'sit down' harder.

#19 Five Bays

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 12:06 PM

I might get shot down for this, but what about using voice commands. If a horse understands whoa and walk, why not use them along with the correct aids to help with the learning. Yes, I know voice commands are not allowed in a dressage test but why not use what the horse already knows.

I've been long lining my young mare. She knows her voice commands so I use them and she does very nice smooth transitions for a young horse.

Dave

#20 dressage33

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:01 PM

I might get shot down for this, but what about using voice commands. If a horse understands whoa and walk, why not use them along with the correct aids to help with the learning. Yes, I know voice commands are not allowed in a dressage test but why not use what the horse already knows.

I've been long lining my young mare. She knows her voice commands so I use them and she does very nice smooth transitions for a young horse.

Dave


You are totally correct Dave. Voice commands are a great to use especially as a transition from ground work to ridden work. Nice suggestion.

Patricia