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WEST NILES CAN BE TREATED!


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#21 Stanislav

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:25 PM

Yes, actually. I know exactly what it takes to get grants and how fun it is doing research;) It can be frustrating, but if you have the science behind you, you can get there with hard work. 10-15 years is more than enough time if the science is good.

I worked in animal research with both the lab and paperwork involved and veterinary medicine for a LONG time.

#22 OHR

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:20 AM

Yes. It used to be quite a bit easier....


:bigemo_harabe_net-135:   :( 


#23 Stanislav

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:38 AM

It has never been easy. The project I was working on last year took many years to get off the ground. You must prove it is safe before you can get it out in front of the public and have the FDA give the ok. There is a good reason for that... many medications are approved in Europe and Canada, but not the USA. It can be very frustrating, and it can be red tape and politics. There often is a good reason too. Like serious side effects that scientists want a good second look at.

#24 Slide

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 11:11 AM

I hardly post anymore. Most of the time it's pointless, but I hate to see someone get attacked over stupidity. I know cvm2002 to be the most competent of vets from personal experience. I have my own background in science and equine management to corroborate this. Not only is she intelligent, she is passionate. She cares, and that is not easy to find in a person. 



#25 felina

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:48 PM

Oh good grief. 

I withdrew from veterinary school from illness, so I probably don't get to have an opinion, but I keep tabs on most of my former classmates.

TOO many are disenchanted with their massive debts.  Some are openly struggling with mental illness from the debt, the long hours, the compassion fatigue.

Many have a hard time disconnecting from random far off acquaintances who want to Facebook them at all hours, neighbors putting notes on their door about their dying cats, and all variations thereof.

They're not in it for the money.

If they felt the treatment really worked and it could be issued within AVMA guidelines, I know most would do it in a heartbeat.

They are some of the most selfless people I ever had the chance to live in a pressure cooker with.  One even is solely dedicating his work and practice to homeless individuals and their pets.  No money there. 


Look back on our struggle for freedom,
Trace our present day's strength to its source;
And you'll find that man's pathway to glory
Is strewn with the bones of a horse.
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#26 ShadesOfGoldArabians

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 08:29 AM

Oh for heavens sakes is right!  This is not a post about how over worked, over stressed and under paid vets are. If you want to discuss that start your own topic!!

 

I havent been on this site for over a year because of all of the drama that goes on every time someone has the nerve to post something that  heaven forbid anyone post something that everyone doesn't agree with. I posted this subject on this forum because unfortunately people love drama and drama gets attention and this miracle treatment needs all of the attention it can get. Every person that reads my first post under this topic will know there is an alternative treatment for West Nile other than the vets preferred costly drawn out treatment that often ends up in the death of their beloved horse. Things got way out of hand when I tried to explain to the 2 vets that there is an alternative treatment. I never meant that vets don't work hard, have stressful lives, and get RICH off of their clients. That "money grubbing vet" comment was made by the vet himself.  I normally wouldn't even have bothered to answer the negative remarks made by the vets or whatever they are but this is a majorly important scientific break through that apparently some, and possibly most, of the medical profession would rather no one believe in. (For whatever reason) I don't want people wasting time and space defending and praising their vets in my post . It has NOTHING to do with my post subject. So please start your own topic of you feel the need to do this.

 

Remember it was a vet that diagnosed my mare with West Nile and we still need them to treat our horses, we just need them to get them well quicker, with less suffering and less expensively.

 

Since treating my mare with Losartan for West Nile  saved her life I am 100% certain this scientific research and the scientific trial that is being done is well worth trying. Theres no guarantee of success in the world of medical treatment for West Nile in our present world. There is actually proof that has been published that Losartan does successfully treat west nile, it can be found on the internet for anyone wanting to find it like I did, and there is no proof that is has ever failed to work when used in the trials....... where do we go from here? Do we believe the negativity of people like the 2 veternarians, or whatever they are, that have made the statement that it is not worth trying and that the person that discovered this miracle is a quack or do we believe

 

David W. Moskowitz, MD- Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, and Chief Medical Officer of GENOMED

 

In February 2001 Moskowitz founded GenoMed with the help of industry veterans Jerry White, Richard Kranitz and Peter Brooks

Dr. Moskowitz majored in Chemistry (summa ###### laude) at Harvard College, Biochemistry (first class honours) at Merton College, Oxford, and received an MD (###### laude) from the Harvard-MIT Division in Health Sciences and Technology (Harvard Medical School). He trained for 7 years in Internal Medicine, Biochemistry, and Nephrology at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis before spending 11 years on the faculty of St. Louis University School of Medicine. Since 1994, Dr. Moskowitz has experienced first hand the clinical effectiveness of knowing a disease-associated gene (the angiotensin converting enzyme, or ACE, gene). Dr. Moskowitz is a pioneer in the field of medical genomics, and has been recognized for his groundbreaking treatment of diseases associated with the angiotensin I-converting enzyme, such as chronic renal failure due to hypertension or type II diabetes.

 

 ​GENOMED is a next generation DMtm company that uses medical genomics to improve patient outcomes. Genomed is working to translate knowledge of medical genomics - the study of which genes cause disease - into clinical practice. We combine biotechnology with disease management. We develop new and better drugs, we use existing drugs for new disease indications, and we uncover disease before symptoms arise. By studying disease genes, we hope to make medicine more proactive and disease prevention more effective.

 

If we cant get our vets and doctors to tell us that there is an ongoing  scientific trial available for treating West Nile with Losartin then who is going to? Who is going to prove that it is an effective treatment? This treatment does not have to be approved by the FDA. The medicine, Losartan, is already an FDA approved medicine primarily used to  treat high blood pressure. Thanks to research done by GENOMED and Dr. Moskowitz it is now being used to treat kidney disease among other things.  Losartan has already been used in a published trial to treat West Nile for humans. So your vet doesn't want to try it on your horse....what if it was your child, parent, sibling? We NEED these trials, and the trials need participants.  They are 100% legal, 100% voluntary, and 100% used in the scientific research that will prove (or disprove) that this medicine will cure West Nile disease in patients both human and animal.  Patients have showed dramatic improvement within 24 hours!!! Until our medical professionals start telling people that this treatment and the trials exist we have LITTLE OR  NO CHANCE of being able to get this medicine on our own without going out of the United States to places like Canada where you can buy it without a prescription, which you can do.  But if we have to go this route we have to order it before you need it because when you need it...you need it NOW. And you need 1,000 mg of Losartan twice a day to treat a horse until it shows dramatic improvement (sometimes after 24 hours) then you reduce to one time per day for 9 - 10 days.  If your horse starts showing symptoms of West Nile call your vet! If they cant help then call Dr. Moskowitz at 1-305-705-9922 and become part of his scientific trial and guidance for treating your horse.  Maybe one of these days you wont have to go through all of the hoops to get this treatment.


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#27 OHR

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 05:13 PM

I would hate to think I was so old and narrow-minded I couldn't even imagine there might be some use in someone's new idea. Especially since playing follow the leader has pretty much killed the Arabian breed.


:bigemo_harabe_net-135:   :( 


#28 cvm2002

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 07:25 PM

You can't be in this profession and not develop a thick skin, so I'm not taking anything as a personal attack.  The comments that I'm narrow-minded and refuse to accept "new" things because I make more money off of treatments however is pushing the limit of tolerance however.  I inserted the "money grubbing vet" quip as that was obviously your implication.  I'm not getting into the over-worked, underpaid, woe-is-me discussion either.  I personally drive a 16 year old car, make less money than someone with an associate's degree, and am in a profession that has the highest student loan debt to income ratio not to mention suicide rate of any other profession.  But its my profession and it is what it is....As mentioned, its a discussion for another thread.  The problem is the implication that the veterinary profession is deliberately ignoring this miracle product for the sake of lining pocket books, which any working grunt, first line veterinarian is by far NOT doing.  Ironic however that this researcher that has an annual compensation of close to a half million dollars a year (publicly viewable online) is not the bad guy, but veterinarians are.....

 

The point isn't if this treatment works or not, its what is PROVEN to work or not.  There are zero published studies on this product.  The internet links previously mentioned are by no means proof.  There are a couple case reports.  Single digit reports that essentially state "Patient had West Nile, we gave the drug, it got better."  There is discussion of what other treatments, if any, the patients received.  No challenge studies, no control, inherent bias.  The ultimate point is that as a science-based profession, science needs to prove without a doubt that the treatment works.  Other points of contention: 1. I put a thread out on the AAEP (American Association of Equine Practitioners) list-group.  This group is composed of thousands of equine veterinarians, from the front-line general practitioner to specialists to university clinicians to world-renowed researchers.  Not a single individual had ever heard of GenoMed or its trials.  2.  If this is such a remarkable finding, why haven't university researchers been involved?  Wouldn't you think that GenoMed would gain credibility by involving well-established university researchers?  Maybe they've tried and were brushed off, I honestly don't know since I"m not at the university level.  3. As a practicing veterinarian, I'm am bound by regulations for drug use as established by the FDA and USDA.  While there is some latitude with AMDUCA for off-label drug use, its a PROFOUND liability and risk to my license to use an unapproved, product with essentially no research to support its use.  Does it work?  I don't know, but I'm not willing to risk my license and livelihood after assuring a client "Sure this works" and it fails based on a literally a couple case studies.  Failure to meet standard of care is one of the biggest reasons veterinarians end up in front of licensure boards and get sued.  Standard of care implies using peer-researched reviewed and clinically tested products where side effects, risks and rate of failure/success and mortality rates are known.  This drug and treatment may very well be the greatest thing since sliced bread and when the challenge studies prove it is, I'll happily admit you were right and use the treatment.  But in the mean time, I continue to use what is accepted as standard of care.  Cold hearted?  Maybe, but I'm not willing to risk my livelihood, income and family security until there is definitive proof.  Which to this  point there isn't.  4.  Correlation does not equate to causation, as demonstrated here https://www.fastcode...-isnt-causation  That's where the research comes in.  Good, bad, point proven, point refuted.  Show more proof and more research and it will be better received.  5.  I'm a HER as my profile clearly shows....  :)

 

I respectfully request that admin lock this thread.  The information about the treatment has been presented, the concerns about it have been presented.  There is nowhere else for this thread to go but ongoing drama and mud-slinging.


Veterinarian by day, and some nights, and most Saturdays, and every 6th weekend and holidays. Wannabe photographer the rest of the time!


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Home of Canadian Top Ten stallion Antham (*Rushan AHSB x WN Sharazada)

 


#29 dragon

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:23 AM

Was this horse current on it's West Nile vaccinations?



#30 OHR

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 05:35 PM

You can't be in this profession and not develop a thick skin, so I'm not taking anything as a personal attack.  The comments that I'm narrow-minded and refuse to accept "new" things because I make more money off of treatments however is pushing the limit of tolerance however.  I inserted the "money grubbing vet" quip as that was obviously your implication.  I'm not getting into the over-worked, underpaid, woe-is-me discussion either.  I personally drive a 16 year old car, make less money than someone with an associate's degree, and am in a profession that has the highest student loan debt to income ratio not to mention suicide rate of any other profession.  But its my profession and it is what it is....As mentioned, its a discussion for another thread.  The problem is the implication that the veterinary profession is deliberately ignoring this miracle product for the sake of lining pocket books, which any working grunt, first line veterinarian is by far NOT doing.  Ironic however that this researcher that has an annual compensation of close to a half million dollars a year (publicly viewable online) is not the bad guy, but veterinarians are.....

 

The point isn't if this treatment works or not, its what is PROVEN to work or not.  There are zero published studies on this product.  The internet links previously mentioned are by no means proof.  There are a couple case reports.  Single digit reports that essentially state "Patient had West Nile, we gave the drug, it got better."  There is discussion of what other treatments, if any, the patients received.  No challenge studies, no control, inherent bias.  The ultimate point is that as a science-based profession, science needs to prove without a doubt that the treatment works.  Other points of contention: 1. I put a thread out on the AAEP (American Association of Equine Practitioners) list-group.  This group is composed of thousands of equine veterinarians, from the front-line general practitioner to specialists to university clinicians to world-renowed researchers.  Not a single individual had ever heard of GenoMed or its trials.  2.  If this is such a remarkable finding, why haven't university researchers been involved?  Wouldn't you think that GenoMed would gain credibility by involving well-established university researchers?  Maybe they've tried and were brushed off, I honestly don't know since I"m not at the university level.  3. As a practicing veterinarian, I'm am bound by regulations for drug use as established by the FDA and USDA.  While there is some latitude with AMDUCA for off-label drug use, its a PROFOUND liability and risk to my license to use an unapproved, product with essentially no research to support its use.  Does it work?  I don't know, but I'm not willing to risk my license and livelihood after assuring a client "Sure this works" and it fails based on a literally a couple case studies.  Failure to meet standard of care is one of the biggest reasons veterinarians end up in front of licensure boards and get sued.  Standard of care implies using peer-researched reviewed and clinically tested products where side effects, risks and rate of failure/success and mortality rates are known.  This drug and treatment may very well be the greatest thing since sliced bread and when the challenge studies prove it is, I'll happily admit you were right and use the treatment.  But in the mean time, I continue to use what is accepted as standard of care.  Cold hearted?  Maybe, but I'm not willing to risk my livelihood, income and family security until there is definitive proof.  Which to this  point there isn't.  4.  Correlation does not equate to causation, as demonstrated here https://www.fastcode...-isnt-causation  That's where the research comes in.  Good, bad, point proven, point refuted.  Show more proof and more research and it will be better received.  5.  I'm a HER as my profile clearly shows....   :)

 

I respectfully request that admin lock this thread.  The information about the treatment has been presented, the concerns about it have been presented.  There is nowhere else for this thread to go but ongoing drama and mud-slinging.

Don't be so tight-pants. I wasn't referring to you, actually. So if you are offended, its because you chose to be.


:bigemo_harabe_net-135:   :(