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Half sibling to half sibling mating.


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#11 BFF

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:15 AM

I tried it once back in 1982.  *Naborr son to *Naborr daughter.  Neither parent had bite issues but he had a horrible overbite. We gelded him as a yearling and he is a well loved -now 33 year old.   He had a really terrific show career with the folks who own him.   Because of the severe overbite and me worrying about his future,  I had a buy back clause on him and actually bought him back two times when his owners lost interest in horses before getting him with his forever home in 1991.

It was with those people he was shown and in fact they wound up buying horse property so they could have him at home.   :D

 

This year a client of mine purchased a Ganges daughter specifically to breed to my Ganges son.  The breeder of the mare and my stallion encouraged that breeding.  The mare did get in foal but with twins and wound up slipping the pregnancy early on so we will re-breed her next year (mare owner did not want to re breed  immediately as the summers are too hot in her opinion to have a foal).   It will be interesting to see what we get.

 

So although I have not been brave enough to do half sibling to half sibling again with my own horses (though I might try it again one day), I do not object to it and have no issues having 

one.  


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#12 dowedoit

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:17 AM

http://www.allbreedp...com/shams fidat


I really only have baby pictures, despostion has become my number one characteristic as I have become older and Fifi has one of the best. Big eyes is also important.
My horses are all fat, never a problem with them

 

I agree with you on this.  I am too old to be around horses who fall short in that area - I don't care how spectacular they LOOK!


Home of Kalaloch (Piaff PASB x Ahbliss), multiple US National Champion, multiple Regional Champion and Scottsdale Champion.
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#13 OHR

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:18 AM

If you plan to do this, go back several generations and search for faults as well as attributes you like. You have a strong liklihood of doubling up on either one.


:bigemo_harabe_net-135:   :( 


#14 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:21 AM

I have seen some pretty horrible leg results with inbreeding. yikes!

#15 dowedoit

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:25 AM

If you plan to do this, go back several generations and search for faults as well as attributes you like. You have a strong liklihood of doubling up on either one.

 

This is a frustrating prospect for me.  I hear it all the time.  But exactly how does one go back and find this information?  I've yet to find a book that says this horse was had good legs but a weak loin and a foul disposition.   You can look at photos but photos will not show an offset cannon when you only see a side view.  Or as BFF mentioned, a parrot mouth may not be evident from a photo - you may actually have to see the horse and open it's lips to tell.  And temperament?  This in one of the hardest things I have found to research.  Lots of people, at least in the Arab world, are not willing to make public statements about anything negative, including temperament.  

 

I am not criticizing your post in any way.  I am simply asking how does a responsible breeder do this with deceased horses?  And even horses who are not deceased - with AI, the horse's in a pedigree, even close up, are most often no longer regionally located.  Not many people can hop on a plane to go check out so and so to see their legs, see their movement, see them in the flesh and evaluate temperament.  So what is the process for doing the evaluation of ancestors?  


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#16 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:30 AM

You need to go to poland , the egyptian event is where I go to see how specific crosses work. I sit front row and eye ball every leg, while I no longer ride I look at every horse to see if it is a horse I would ride and sadly many would be a big no.

#17 dowedoit

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:38 AM

You need to go to poland , the egyptian event is where I go to see how specific crosses work. I sit front row and eye ball every leg, while I no longer ride I look at every horse to see if it is a horse I would ride and sadly many would be a big no.

 

That's an option that is not available to all - myself included.  But not limiting the question just to me (especially since I am moving to QHs), how does a person relatively new to Arabians - who was not around to see those Arabians who have so strongly influenced the breed - find out what these ancestors were conformationally and temperamentally?  You do hear some generalities but only about a handful of mostly big name stallions, like Comet known for producing heat.  Even some of the big name stallions I've heard contrary information so what is one to believe?  One fairly significant stallion in the history of Polish Arabians I've heard had and produced a bad temperament and poor work ethic.  I've also heard the complete opposite.  Does that mean someone is lying?  I don't think so.  I think the opposing opininons are based on one's experience.  Some had good temperaments while others had stellar temperaments.  So can it truly be attributed to that sire?  I have a horse with that ancestor and my horse has a stellar temperament with an excellent work ethic.  

 

Breeding is a crap shoot in any arena.  Probably less of a crap shoot with line and inbreeding.  But you will wind up on either end of the spectrum as opposed to somewhere in the middle.  So the risk is greater but the potential for success (or failure) is likewise so.  


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#18 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:41 AM

http://arabiansltd.c...the-sequel-rca
Full siblings

#19 OHR

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 09:14 AM

There are a LOT of older breeders still around who are willing to talk all day about these horses. Those who aren't willing to talk to you are often hiding something you should know.


Pretty face. What ELSE has he got?


:bigemo_harabe_net-135:   :( 


#20 Marilee

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 12:45 PM

Fadjur crosses (Jack Tone Ranch)

 

Om El Arab (*El Shaklan and______--forgot her name right now)

 

Nazeer sons to Nazeer daughters (Ansata and other breeders)

 

Babson lines 

 

Some Gainey horses or Ferzon lines

 

Simeon in Australia

 

Am familiar with some of these listed above. Old videos, (showing the whole body and movement), pictures, talking to people who really saw them...... Honest breeders will share the good, bad, and ugly, or at least explain what did and what did not work, instead of only taking pictures of heads or doing cosmetic surgery.......Good traits and characteristics and bad will be there (expressed) or be hidden. I believe many horses to resemble a grandparent or 2 grandparents often more than just the sire plus the dam. 

 

I have had 2 horses with 3 crosses to Fadjur and one with 2 crosses to Fadjur, and have seen several combinations of the others above. I am huge on behavior, work ethic, and disposition too, and believe those are both environmental and inherited.