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Half sibling to half sibling mating.


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#1 PleasantNightsArabians

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:18 AM

What can everyone tell me about half sibling matings? In my research, I have come across several horses (stallions and mares) who have either the same sire or dam, and were crossed with great success.

If the resulting foal is excellent, does this typically yield a consistent breeding animal? I would expect great consistency in those excellent traits as well as the faults.

I also understand that if attempting the cross, a breeder must be cautious and breed two half siblings who do not carry similar faults, particularly if they are less acceptable (i.e. Leg, movement, disposition, balance, tail set, etc...)

Finally, I would love examples of Hal sibling matings, of any breeding, successful, unsuccessful, and whether they sired or produced well.

This topic is of great interest, as I often find myself wowed by a horse, only to look at the pedigree and discover the sire and dam are by the same horse or mare.

With that said, I am looking forward to everyone's thoughts and examples. Thanks in advance!
Shadeed DA~2010 Chestnut stallion (Amir Shaklan [Om El Shahmaan x Adiqa Badeia] x Macarena Brahima [Sidi-Brahim x MA Halima Rouge])
PN Alrouhanih~2014 Grey colt (Mirage V++++// x Forrevermore)
Forrevermore~2006 Bay mare (Dark Alibi [Alada Baskin] x Carismor [GG Jabask])
Fiyaero SRA~2008 Grey mare (*Ecaho x Magenta PA [Magyar {Negatraz}])

#2 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:31 AM

Shams El bina.
http://www.allbreedp...m/shams el bina
extremely difficult to get in foal, I believe from being inbred.

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#3 dowedoit

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:35 AM

My understanding of line and inbreeding principles suggests that the goal in producing such a cross is not so much for the success of the product of the cross, but in the breeding potential of the horse produced from the cross. In other words. The success of such a cross is proven by the offspring being produced by the product of the cross.
Home of Kalaloch (Piaff PASB x Ahbliss), multiple US National Champion, multiple Regional Champion and Scottsdale Champion.
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#4 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:36 AM

My filly out of this mare is the bomb

#5 PleasantNightsArabians

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:55 AM

My understanding of line and inbreeding principles suggests that the goal in producing such a cross is not so much for the success of the product of the cross, but in the breeding potential of the horse produced from the cross. In other words. The success of such a cross is proven by the offspring being produced by the product of the cross.

Precisely, Shelly!
I know of an outstanding individual who is the product of breeding a stallion and mare by the same sire. The stallion I have in mind does not have enough foals on the ground to see what he sires consistently. I imagine breeding to such a horse and outcrossing in the next generation would yield a mighty individual.

Shams El bina.
http://www.allbreedp...m/shams el bina
extremely difficult to get in foal, I believe from being inbred.


Can you post photos of her filly and the fillies' pedigree? Nice mare!
Shadeed DA~2010 Chestnut stallion (Amir Shaklan [Om El Shahmaan x Adiqa Badeia] x Macarena Brahima [Sidi-Brahim x MA Halima Rouge])
PN Alrouhanih~2014 Grey colt (Mirage V++++// x Forrevermore)
Forrevermore~2006 Bay mare (Dark Alibi [Alada Baskin] x Carismor [GG Jabask])
Fiyaero SRA~2008 Grey mare (*Ecaho x Magenta PA [Magyar {Negatraz}])

#6 dowedoit

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:57 AM

Precisely, Shelly!
I know of an outstanding individual who is the product of breeding a stallion and mare by the same sire. The stallion I have in mind does not have enough foals on the ground to see what he sires consistently. I imagine breeding to such a horse and outcrossing in the next generation would yield a mighty individual.

 

I would study the foals he has produced thus far.  They should tell what you can expect.  Of course, the mare's he's been bred to also play a key role but you should be able to see where he is proponent and where he is not.  I would also try to study the mare's he was bred to as well.  


Home of Kalaloch (Piaff PASB x Ahbliss), multiple US National Champion, multiple Regional Champion and Scottsdale Champion.
CA and SCID negative.

#7 OHR

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:06 AM

In my experience over the years, this sort of cross results in either an exceptional breeding animal, or a very poor one. There seems to be no middle ground. If the offspring of the cross is on  the "good" end of the spectrum, usually THEIR offspring are good also, always providing they are bred to another good animal.


Shams El bina.
http://www.allbreedp...m/shams el bina
extremely difficult to get in foal, I believe from being inbred.

I doubt "inbred" had anything to do with being difficult to get in foal. Being overweight can make breeding difficult though.


:bigemo_harabe_net-135:   :( 


#8 PleasantNightsArabians

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:25 AM

I would study the foals he has produced thus far. They should tell what you can expect. Of course, the mare's he's been bred to also play a key role but you should be able to see where he is proponent and where he is not. I would also try to study the mare's he was bred to as well.


Absolutely. I plan to research the foals and their dams as well.

I am curious about this as potentially in the future, I might be interested in trying a half sibling cross from a strong stallion or mare. I would definitely be curious as to how the horse would produce. Starting with the right individuals is key.

So in other words, this discussion is about more than one horse. I am interested in the entire aspect of linebreeding.

In my experience over the years, this sort of cross results in either an exceptional breeding animal, or a very poor one. There seems to be no middle ground. If the offspring of the cross is on the "good" end of the spectrum, usually THEIR offspring are good also, always providing they are bred to another good animal.

I doubt "inbred" had anything to do with being difficult to get in foal. Being overweight can make breeding difficult though.


I hear you on no middle ground. It would certainly be interesting to try with some of my favorite stallions. I am also big on outcrossing, so I would only attempt it a few times over the course of my long term breeding program, but I can imagine the outcross foals from that half sibling breeding being exceptional.

Does anyone know of such horses and their consistency when breeding?
Shadeed DA~2010 Chestnut stallion (Amir Shaklan [Om El Shahmaan x Adiqa Badeia] x Macarena Brahima [Sidi-Brahim x MA Halima Rouge])
PN Alrouhanih~2014 Grey colt (Mirage V++++// x Forrevermore)
Forrevermore~2006 Bay mare (Dark Alibi [Alada Baskin] x Carismor [GG Jabask])
Fiyaero SRA~2008 Grey mare (*Ecaho x Magenta PA [Magyar {Negatraz}])

#9 dowedoit

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:48 AM

Absolutely. I plan to research the foals and their dams as well.

I am curious about this as potentially in the future, I might be interested in trying a half sibling cross from a strong stallion or mare. I would definitely be curious as to how the horse would produce. Starting with the right individuals is key.

So in other words, this discussion is about more than one horse. I am interested in the entire aspect of linebreeding.

I hear you on no middle ground. It would certainly be interesting to try with some of my favorite stallions. I am also big on outcrossing, so I would only attempt it a few times over the course of my long term breeding program, but I can imagine the outcross foals from that half sibling breeding being exceptional.

Does anyone know of such horses and their consistency when breeding?

 

Check out Pete McNeil's breeding program.  He is on facebook.  He has successfully used line and inbreeding to produce some powerful genetic horses.  


Home of Kalaloch (Piaff PASB x Ahbliss), multiple US National Champion, multiple Regional Champion and Scottsdale Champion.
CA and SCID negative.

#10 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:10 AM

http://www.allbreedp...com/shams fidat


I really only have baby pictures, despostion has become my number one characteristic as I have become older and Fifi has one of the best. Big eyes is also important.

In my experience over the years, this sort of cross results in either an exceptional breeding animal, or a very poor one. There seems to be no middle ground. If the offspring of the cross is on  the "good" end of the spectrum, usually THEIR offspring are good also, always providing they are bred to another good animal.

I doubt "inbred" had anything to do with being difficult to get in foal. Being overweight can make breeding difficult though.

My horses are all fat, never a problem with them

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