64 replies to this topic

[Ann7]

You have beautiful horses and I have greatly enjoyed your posts. I would love to hear about your outcross to QR Excel as our stallion is by QR Excel.
Ann

[Mustafa Sabankaya]

You have beautiful horses and I have greatly enjoyed your posts. I would love to hear about your outcross to QR Excel as our stallion is by QR Excel.
Ann

Dear Ann, Our experience has been very successful with QR Excel.
Even though I did not get what I was expecting, I got some very uniform quality horses with him. In all we have used one stallion named SS Atilgan By QR Excel, and seven mares. We bred the stallion back in to our program very successfully, I love the next generation a lot more. for example the Atilgan foal below,SS Royal At this is a granddaughter of QR Excel.





SS Royal At 2008 Bay mare (SS Atilgan x SS Rojalista by SS Thunderbolt). Shown her at age 3. She is in foal to Ajman due for June , I can hardly wait!!





Here are some of the QR Excel mares who are also in foal to Ajman.





SS Anacel 2002 Bay mare (QR Excel x SS Anabelle by Spark). Shown here age 9.




SS Caranfil 2002 Bay mare ( QR Excel x SS Annabel by Spark)



SS Excellebration 2002 black mare (QR Excel x SS Selebration by Spark).


If you have not yet , please go to Sabankaya select web page Under the Albums I have more information .

Mustafa

[Nicole&Reannon]

Mustafa ~ I hope you don't take this the wrong way as it is not meant to be taken in a negative light, but I have been looking at a lot of the horses in your breeding program and notice quite a few of them have a substantial amount of narrowing in the nasal cavity after the jowl/cheek bone. It is obvious that you quite like the extreme profiles as some of your own mares and stallions have various extremes, and the stallions you are choosing for outcrosses are also known for being more extreme and so crossing them into your program will probably perpetuate it, which I assume is part of the goal? What I am curious about is, if you have ever had x rays done on any of your more extreme headed horses to make sure they don't have any issues within the nasal cavity, jaw bone or tooth formation? A lot of people would be weary of going to such extremes, and since many of your horses are heavily line bred, the trait would be expressed more and more each generation IF it was a dominant trait in sire and dam and being passed down. I'm wondering if there is, in your opinion, a head that is TOO extreme? Again, not meant to be an attack on your program as you have so many lovely horses and many are related to both of mine in many ways, so I definitely love many of your horses... but from a purely medical/health standpoint, I'm very curious about the skeletal structure of some of your horses and if you have done any studies to insure there are no genetic defects taking place in your more extreme horses that would be potentially compounded when bred.

All the best

Nicole

[Ann7]

Our stallion, Bellagio AF (QR Excel X Sanegors Lady D), has a great temperament. We have always wanted to know more about his breeding. We see foals from Sanegors Lady D, such as Bugatti, but none by QR Excel until you posted here. Thank you and I will check out your web page.
Ann

[Alpha Arabians]

I'm glad you got personality from Laheeb and dishier faces. Interesting your comment on barrel. I always felt your horses were big barreled. My goodness SS Alarya that I had was all tank! I don't feel you needed barrel from Laheeb. If you got more barrel great, yet not lacking in your program before IMO. I still like the other crosses better and you posting the pics of Excel get in the posts above just confirms that more for me. Look at Anacel... what's not to like about her? She looks broody, dry, solid bodied, balanced, pretty, etc. Nice high tail set. I think we've both agreed in the past we don't like the pin that tail on the donkey look. She's the kind of mare that looks like you could take her quite a few different ways in the breeding shed and not be disappointed with the foals--or ride her in the mountains all day and not break down on you. I'll look forward to seeing the Laheeb grandkids as jury is still out for me....

[Slide]

I don't see anything that would warrant this type of question, so I'm curious as to what basis you have for asking it?

Mustafa ~ I hope you don't take this the wrong way as it is not meant to be taken in a negative light, but I have been looking at a lot of the horses in your breeding program and notice quite a few of them have a substantial amount of narrowing in the nasal cavity after the jowl/cheek bone. It is obvious that you quite like the extreme profiles as some of your own mares and stallions have various extremes, and the stallions you are choosing for outcrosses are also known for being more extreme and so crossing them into your program will probably perpetuate it, which I assume is part of the goal? What I am curious about is, if you have ever had x rays done on any of your more extreme headed horses to make sure they don't have any issues within the nasal cavity, jaw bone or tooth formation? A lot of people would be weary of going to such extremes, and since many of your horses are heavily line bred, the trait would be expressed more and more each generation IF it was a dominant trait in sire and dam and being passed down. I'm wondering if there is, in your opinion, a head that is TOO extreme? Again, not meant to be an attack on your program as you have so many lovely horses and many are related to both of mine in many ways, so I definitely love many of your horses... but from a purely medical/health standpoint, I'm very curious about the skeletal structure of some of your horses and if you have done any studies to insure there are no genetic defects taking place in your more extreme horses that would be potentially compounded when bred.

All the best

Nicole

[Mustafa Sabankaya]

I'm glad you got personality from Laheeb and dishier faces. Interesting your comment on barrel. I always felt your horses were big barreled. My goodness SS Alarya that I had was all tank! I don't feel you needed barrel from Laheeb. If you got more barrel great, yet not lacking in your program before IMO. I still like the other crosses better and you posting the pics of Excel get in the posts above just confirms that more for me. Look at Anacel... what's not to like about her? She looks broody, dry, solid bodied, balanced, pretty, etc. Nice high tail set. I think we've both agreed in the past we don't like the pin that tail on the donkey look. She's the kind of mare that looks like you could take her quite a few different ways in the breeding shed and not be disappointed with the foals--or ride her in the mountains all day and not break down on you. I'll look forward to seeing the Laheeb grandkids as jury is still out for me....



Thanks for the great comments about Anacel... we like her, too. I think you might have misunderstood what I meant when I said I got big barrels from the Laheeb cross, in addition to dryness and concave profile, and personality and so forth: I didn't mean to say that the big barrel came from Laheeb , as a matter of fact if you read the earlier part of the Laheeb and I post, you can see I openly mention the fact that he was shallow in the hart girth and did not have a well sprang rib cage. As you said in your reply, big barrel is one of the strengths of our program, coming from *Morwa (John's mare )
Incidentally, the more I look at the Laheeb progeny, the more I like them, and I don't think I need a jury to tell me that! You wait and see! I'll post the pictures of Laheebdar's foals soon.
By the way, I never insinuated at any time that I did not like my other out cross attempts, with other stallions, on the contrary I always said how happy I was with my Excel cross. Not to mention my love of the Fadjur outcross.
As we all know, what makes this horse breeding so exciting is to wonder how the next cross will work out, it is needless to say that I am very confidant that my Laheeb daughters will give me some of the best Ajman foals this year.

I want to take this conversation as an opportunity to say that, all these experimentative outcrosses have noting to do with the main Classical Pure polish part of our program. That program is very surely moving forward as we indulge our self’s with other explorations.
Just to show you an incredible example of that I will introduce this classical pure polish colt that is named SS Silver comet, he is by the homozygous bay SS Arkadash, Ana Maria’s full brother.














8 SS Silver Comet is a very special colt, Looking more like his wold clas grand dam Celebaska, he i definitely stallion potential. He represents 40 years of strategic Sabankaya breeding,he is 2 x Spark, 4 x Comet, 6 x Bask, I2 x Amurath Sahib, and 27 times Kuhailan Haifi

[Alpha Arabians]

When I said "what's not to like about her?" I did not mean to insinuate that you were saying you didn't like your other outcross attempts. I know you do!
It was a rhetorical question on my part, as if to say, my goodness how could anyone not like that mare?! She's fabulous!

(As for the Laheeb barrels... OK I admit, I didn't read your first loooong post! Lol! I just went straight to the pics and your comments after mine!)

Love the ears on Comet!

[Mustafa Sabankaya]

I don't see anything that would warrant this type of question, so I'm curious as to what basis you have for asking it?

Dear Nicole,
I found your comment very stimulating, and definitely did not take it negatively as you were concern that I might. In fact this topic could lead us in to a very lengthy and deep discussions.
Yes I have to admit that I like very typy Arabian horses. However I also am very aware of extreme dish that could interfere with the air intake of the horse.
If I may, I would like to talk about Optical allusion that can misled the observer if the observer does not consider the following.
For example, one can look at a horse let’s say that, who has a 18 inch circumference in the nasal passage area, who’s head consist of a long face not much width between the eyes no signs of a jibbah and have a very flat jowls and pressed down nostrils who might appear to be normal,
If we take another horse with the 18 inches circumference in the nasal passage area who on the contrary has a very wide set eyes, big old jibbah, very short head, dressed with big flaring nostrils who also happened to have a very prominent jowls, more than likely this horse will appear to have a much dishier head than the first one described.
Our horses fit the description of the latter very much as they have very prominent jowls a lot of distance between the eyes definitely big bulging jibbah and so on.
I am very confidant that we sure do not have any horses with extreme dish to a point where we have to take x rays. Not yet anyway!!
Respectfully yours,
Mustafa

[Nicole&Reannon]

Hi Mustafa, I am very glad that you took my question lightly, as I certainly meant no disrespect, and I agree this could be a very interesting discussion! Do you mind if I post photos of the horses in your program that I would be curious about their skull conformation?

You are definitely correct, that there is some what of an illusion when you have a horse with a very pronounced jibbah, and it's very possible that is all there is to it. It would be very interesting to see some sort of study on horse head shapes and if there is in fact any effect on things like breathing, teeth, brain capacity, vision etc. I have been looking at photos of horse skulls ( wish I could actually SEE them in person, much easier to compare and contrast), to see if there is anything about them that might suggest any of those issues are possible, or if horses with a shorter face and wider forehead have MORE wind capacity than those with a longer, narrower skull. The other thing I notice with arabian skulls vs other breeds is how far down the bone goes down the end of the nose.. on arabian skulls it seems to stop much shorter which would give their nostrils a more fleshy and expressive appearance than horses who have bone continuing lower.

I know you obviously care deeply about your horses, and I think this sort of thing is very interesting, and something that could be studies with a large herd like yours who have a wide variety of face shapes!

Nicole