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What are the Egyptian traits?


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#1 CorineM

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 06:16 AM

In researching pedigree of horses I am interested in possibly purchasing I now come across a horse that is 50% Egyptian bred.
I am familiar with the Polish and Russian lines, but not at all with the Egyptian.

What is "typical" of the Egyptian Arabian? (As far as use, size, conformation, disposition, movements etc etc...)
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#2 Copper Leaf

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:04 AM

In researching pedigree of horses I am interested in possibly purchasing I now come across a horse that is 50% Egyptian bred.
I am familiar with the Polish and Russian lines, but not at all with the Egyptian.

What is "typical" of the Egyptian Arabian? (As far as use, size, conformation, disposition, movements etc etc...)


I have owned one Straight Egyptian and one Egyptian Bred (the EB was 98% Egyptian).

The SE was a stallion and he was s.m.a.r.t, and very kind... the kind of horse you could put a novice rider or child on... one of the best trail horses I have ever had (he did have a few quirks, like not being fond of going through tall grass). Conformationally he was put together pretty well, 14.3hh, well shaped neck, good shoulder, a bit long in the back and although he had a well formed hind end he was perhaps a tad short in the croup... great legs and feet though... he moved like a Western horse.

The ER I had was a mare... She was double Nabiel and the *Sakr really came out in her movement, she could trot like a locomotive, A-MAZING, would take your breath away... She was a BIG bodied mare, not very tall, maybe 14.2hh, but round enough to take all of your leg. She too may have been a little long in the loin area and had a peaky croup. Her legs were very clean, great bone, super feet. She was very green under saddle and a little nervous, didn't ride her much. However, she was a fabulous broodmare, she gave me an exquisite filly that went TT at SHN with her new ammy owner (who is now getting said filly going in her dressage career).

A universal trait I have noticed with Egyptian horses is that you really need to earn their respect. They are regal creatures and they KNOW it. They do not suffer fools well, and they are not the kind of horses that will allow themselves to be manhandled. Being patient and gentle will get you much farther than insisting you know better than they do... you have to think OUTSIDE of the box when you come to a training obstacle with an Egyptian Arabian. Once you have their respect you will have a devoted partner for life.

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#3 Layne

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:18 AM

In researching pedigree of horses I am interested in possibly purchasing I now come across a horse that is 50% Egyptian bred.
I am familiar with the Polish and Russian lines, but not at all with the Egyptian.

What is "typical" of the Egyptian Arabian? (As far as use, size, conformation, disposition, movements etc etc...)



Well, you do always have to look at the horse in front of you. I've owned a few Egyptian/relateds, but nothing on the scale of some people. In all honesty, you have to really watch the shoulders/coupling and necks. It's rare that I see an SE who is truly superior in those areas - and those are important areas in today's show/breeding stock. Sure don't have to worry about the heads though. We have a horse who is only 1/4 SE , but his head is dead ringer for E. All with a grain of salt, but the Se/Polish-Russian-Spanish crosses have always been known for being superior animals. Half-SE horses can be truly outstanding.

#4 VanAlma

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:51 AM

Well, I agree with CopperLeaf 100% on the temperment and minds. If you don't want to think as a rider / trainer or you don't keep respect at a high then an Egyptian is probably not for you, including Egyptian-sired unless the mare was dominant in that respect. There is a reason why the halter horses that go to Egyptian sire lines are so exotic and good at what they do. They will react to being mistreated/chased/chastized etc and look beautiful doing it.
I do tend think the hip/croup has been bred out of many for the halter ring as so many Egyptian owners don't even RIDE and the EE has all of 5 riding classes. So, you'll get the useless but pretty flat croupe that doesn't do you much under saddle. The inbreeding of Nazeer did nothing for many of their necks. See Gassir, Serr Marrianer, Sultann, Ibn Hafiza, Roufah etc and you'll see a VERY different kind if Egyptian.
However, you need to consider your source of blood: Old versus New.
Old Egyptian lines (Babsons & Gulustra) are very hearty and tend to be less reactive.
New Egyptian lines tend to be more reactive but have MR type.
Please post a pedigree and maybe we can pinpoint some detail about what we see as far as potential Egyptian influence :)
ETA - you can get them as small as 14hh and I've seen them close to 16hh with my own eyes. Movement tends to be longer and lower: more hunter/SH/WP/Dressage.

#5 larapintavian

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:53 AM

Basically, Egyptians are just like other Arab lines ... they're all INDIVIDUALS.

Among the horses I've had in the last 40 years (and my daughter in the last 20) have been straights, high percentage, and non Egyptians. We've had great experience with purchasing and competing many different bloodlines. We breed a very few horses and when we do, we breed for athletes. We've gotten them.

Most of our Eventers (Purebred, Anglo, and part bred, purchased and home-bred) have been a fairly high percentage Egyptian or had an SE parent (including all the Anglos and half-breds). Our two SE stallions were both trained for Eventing, but only one was competed (they lost out in the 'training time and money' department to the geldings) and he won his Novice division, only time out. He also sired upper-level Eventers, including a successful FEI competitor and a +/ Anglo-Arab show competitor (we usually don't bother to enroll our horses in the AHA programs as the Eventing points are ridiculous and the programs favor the half-breds over pures point wise ... takes fewer points for that + or / on a part-Arab .. not exactly 'fair' to purebreds in open USEF competition). The other stallion began his saddle training after he was purchased at age 9, and did very well but we lost him before we were able to compete him in rated competition.

As mentioned above, GENERALLY they are very, very, smart and don't take 'man-handling' but must respect you. Get their respect right from the beginning and you've got a horse that you can work with as a partner for life.

Horses from old Babson lines often tend to be a bit quieter and gentler, but again each is a total individual and much depends on the type of early handling they received ... if they were rewarded for acting like an idiot, they'll act that way ... if they've been expected to act like a sane, dependable partner, they'll be that sane, dependable partner. They definetely take their behavioral 'cue' from the handler/rider, sensing what that person 'expects' them to do. But there again, that's a trait of any highly intelligent horse. The person handling/riding makes a tremdous difference. I can make almost any horse 'high' (without trying) while my daughter can calm even the most tense animal under saddle.

Handle the horse you're considering, and find out if you and it are a mental/emotional match (are on the same 'wave lentgth' so to speak). We've had horses here, SE, E-sired, high percentage and low percentage, that 'click' with me (I'm 'ancient' and not a very good rider) but don't 'click' as well with my daughter who is a highly accomplished upper level Eventer -- and vice versa. Her horses tend to have that competitive 'edge' and connection with her that allows them excell in their sport against the WBs and Tbs. She and they seem to almost read each others' minds. They not only know what she's asking, but eagerly anticipate each schooling and competition. They merely tolerate me. Every 'match' of horse/handler/rider is a very individual thing, and possibly a bit more so with the Egyptians.

As for Egyptian physical traits, they run the gamut. You can find any 'type' or quality of SE that you find in other bloodlines. Just look for what YOU want and need in any horse. Posting a pedigree, as Kate mentioned, would allow people to point out 'generalities' of certain lines contained in it. But in the long run, it comes down to you and the particular horse.
Sharon
Larapinta Sport Horses
Emphasis on Arab Eventers
http://www.larapintasporthorses.com

#6 CorineM

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:13 AM

Thanks so far!!

I'm gonna look REAL silly now, but just looked up the pedigree of the mare I already own (all of a sudden a light went on) and I think her dam is Egyptian.
She is a HA (Paint) here is her pedigree. http://www.allbreedp...iyyahs doc boss

I am not looking for a halter horse and as is my experience in Europe where I lived the past 10 years, most the Egyptians are all halter and show horses, rarely get used under saddle. I DO want a riding horse.

Of course the horse as an individual is the most important thing to look at, but as I am unfamiliar with the lines and the Egyptian horses in itself, other than seeing them do their "thing" at shows, I was wondering what else is behind this line of breeding?

Funny thing is the horse I am researching now also has many "Ansata" names, as does my mare. Is that name a particular line? Or breeder?
He is the Khartoon Khlassic gelding posted for sale on this forum.
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#7 JennyM

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:27 AM

It's no secret that I am a devoted Ansata fan. Intelligence, sweetness, size, prepotency, and golly, he's even a lovely halter horse that goes low and slow western pleasure.

My friend Chantelle has had the lifelong pleasure of training and showing Serr Signature, an SE Babson bred gelding.

I agree with Sharon, they are all individuals. Like most creatures, they appreciate respect.

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#8 TripleHFarm

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:50 AM

I have 23 Egyptian horses at the farm, they will be a best friend for life but don't stand for any kind of mistreatment.

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BINT SAFIERA 2000 Bay mare, SHAMS EL BINA 2002 Bay mare, NAKHDA AL SHAIB 2004 Grey Gelding<---- AL, SIHR JAWHER 2006 Bay Stallion, NADEERAH ALIAH 2006 Bay mare, ZAHRAN HAMRAH 2006 Grey mare, SHAMS FIDAT 2012 grey filly, SKYLER the 1/2 Arabian pinto wonder horse

#9 VanAlma

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:24 PM

Thanks so far!!

I'm gonna look REAL silly now, but just looked up the pedigree of the mare I already own (all of a sudden a light went on) and I think her dam is Egyptian.
She is a HA (Paint) here is her pedigree. http://www.allbreedp...iyyahs doc boss

I am not looking for a halter horse and as is my experience in Europe where I lived the past 10 years, most the Egyptians are all halter and show horses, rarely get used under saddle. I DO want a riding horse.

Of course the horse as an individual is the most important thing to look at, but as I am unfamiliar with the lines and the Egyptian horses in itself, other than seeing them do their "thing" at shows, I was wondering what else is behind this line of breeding?

Funny thing is the horse I am researching now also has many "Ansata" names, as does my mare. Is that name a particular line? Or breeder?
He is the Khartoon Khlassic gelding posted for sale on this forum.

Ansata has bred hundreds of horses and sold around the world. As a group they tend to be very trainable and have excellent temperments. You'll also get lots of type and tail carriage.
Your mare does have some Ansata and Babson, which people are still breeding for substance and brains. She also has Shaikh al Badi, which lends itself to a hotter temperment with lots of flair but trainable and fun.
Going to go look at him now ;)
You can not go wrong with this dam line: Ru Abbatra. Babson/Turfa/Pritzlaf - I have owned horses of this line and they are exceptional. The only thing is: t..h..e..y....g..r..o..w....s..l..o..w. Unless they take after daddy, and I am not familiar with how this sire's babies mature - but he does produce nice ones :)

Edited by VanAlma, 24 July 2011 - 02:34 PM.


#10 Copper Leaf

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:38 PM

I have 23 Egyptian horses at the farm, they will be a best friend for life but don't stand for any kind of mistreatment.



Ohmygosh, that is the cutest photo e.v.e.r... I love seeing babies with babies :bigemo_harabe_net-113:

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye Heavenly Host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Amen.