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#11 krissylekrix2001

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:49 PM

That is amazing! She has so much natural talent. Sometimes these most talented mares are the HOTTIES and the diva's, I have noticed this. My 2 best moving mares are hot hot hot and sure full of P and V. They are sweet too but just HOT.

I think they are worth it and worth working through their ultra sensitive reactions to things.

You guys have done an amazing job.

Thank you! That is just it--she is not hot about things anymore, but very calm and deliberate. Certainly a diva, and certainly full of p and v! Definitely worth it when we can get her working up to her full potential. I know she was pulling on me a few times in the video, but hey at least she was going, lol!

Posted Image Way to go! very impressive, she sure has a great deal of natural athletic ability. You two have done a wonderful job,

One day you will look back on this and say "remember when we first started working that mare? she's so good now, hard to believe she was such a handful to start with"


Oh ###### YEAH we will be saying that!!!!

Yeah, and they'll say "WHEW, we're so glad we finished training this mare to perfection, bred her to Magic Aulrab, got sick of her, and sent her to Moeskii.... yeah, we're so glad we though of that!"
Posted Image
Mitch :lol:

Mitch you are so dang cute. :) I do like MA, but actually, I would love, love, love to pair her up with Erykk when the time is right!

More of her antics...blinkers on so she will have a more difficult time planting a kick...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqjryMZZZA
ETA: I put this video up to illustrate where we started at with her. I should have given a better explanation when I posted it. And that was nothing compared to what she used to do--she was extremely reactive before, here she has settled into calm and deliberate. She had already been lounging in side reins and ground driven, she did not like going down that wall and was going to have her way about it. Anytime she decided she didn't like anything, from brushing to clipping to lounging, whatever, she would do this. She has no problems longlining at this point and infrequently rears on the ground or undersaddle.

#12 NIECE

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:45 AM

She certainly is a stinker. She was determined to do things her way. Glad she is has finally decided to wrap her head around her work routine.

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#13 Arlene Magid

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:57 AM

Kirsten, as you know I have lots of respect for your skills as a horsewoman.

My respect just went up to maximum. Working with a difficult, talented horse is the best test of one's skills-you have been persistent, thought outside the box, and kept yourself as safe as possible (month with a trainer when you realized you were out of your depth). Kudos to you and your friend who owns this mare-because this is just the sort of horse people DO give up on that later needs rescuing.

BTW, it may NOT be the Hackney that's causing her attitude. *Eter was a tough customer, Don DeLongpre told me plenty of stories about him. *Eter was never shown under saddle because he was so difficult. He sired many broodmares who produced National winners but his own get could be as tough as this mare. Just something to think about as her dam is an *Eter granddaughter. The good trainability of the Huck horses can sometimes be offset by the difficulties with *Eter.

Please note I am NOT dissing *Eter. I am simply trying to explain her temperament. I myself owned a mare by a Comet grandson (*Eter is a Comet son) as my first Arabian, and she was very diva like and had her own way of doing things-you didn't dare cross tie her, and her usual reaction to being trailered was to sit down in the driveway like a dog and refuse to move. Dolly also liked to buck and flip people off if she didn't feel like being ridden that day. Like Huck, her dam came from lines noted for good disposition.

Comet is a horse I respect in a pedigree for athletic ability. But the temperament issue is there as well.

Here is some info on the Huck/*Eter cross from 2008. 2 years ago:

The great broodmare sire *ETER sired daughters nicked very well with HUCKLEBERRY BEY++, producing National Champion BEY APERITIF V (dam of U.S. National Champion English Pleasure and English Pleasure AOTR 18-39 THE NOBELEST), LA ATHENA (dam of multi-National Champion Show Hack WA ADONIS+//), HUCKS LUCKY CHARM (dam of ALLISUN+//, a National Champion in show hack, country pleasure, English sidesaddle and native costume), AMBIANCE V (dam of 6 National winners including U.S. Reserve National Champion Mare AOTH CA RUFFLESNLACE), and HUCKLEBERRY HONEY (dam of WA KHORUS GIRL+, a National Champion in western pleasure and western sidesaddle with a junior rider). *ETER sired 15 purebred and Half-Arabian National winners, including the National Champions HOLLY GO LIGHTLY (EVORA’s full sister), U.S. Reserve National Champion Futurity Colt BACK STREET (sire of 6 National Champions including U.S. Reserve National Champion Country Pleasure NH SCARLET STING and U.S. National Champion Mare NH LOVE POTION), U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian Mare AUTUMN FLOWER (dam of multi-National Champion Half-Arabian hunt pleasure FLOWER DRUM+ and U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian Pleasure Driving and twice Canadian National Champion Half-Arabian English Sidesaddle BAYBARY+), Canadian Reserve National Champion Stock Horse DIAMANDD, U.S and Canadian National Champion Half-Arabian Gelding and Pleasure Driving and U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian English Pleasure HECHICERO+++, and U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian Pleasure Driving NDL EVERGREEN. *ETER get have also won National top tens in park AOTR, western pleasure AOTR, working cow horse, native costume, and hunter over fences. 33 *ETER get have produced purebred or Half-Arabian National winners through 2008. His daughter APRIL CHARM is the dam of 6 National winners by HUCKLEBERRY BEY++ or his sons, and the *ETER daughters LADY ETER, AUTUMN FLAIR and ANZA AUTYM SUNSET have all produced National winners by sons of HUCKLEBERRY BEY++.
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#14 elitearab

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 03:48 AM

I'm going to 2nd Arlene's comment, as I own an Eter daughter and a couple of her daughters. These horses have their own way of thinking, they aren't mean, they are athletic as all he!! but they take time and patience to build their trust in you. Their will to please is not as strong as their will to be right so the last thing you ever want to do is pick a fight with them. Their way of communicating when they don't like or understand something is by throwing a hissy fit. They tend to be very smart and learn quickly, but have the memory of an elephant and will remember things, good and bad forever. That is great when a session goes well, but if you cheese them off it becomes a sticking point. I have always been leary of sending mine out for training, I sent out one to a trainer that has had many in his barn. She did very well with his assistant trainer who was like you and had alot of patience, but I don't think the 'traditional' training methods worked well for her.

#15 arabsRgreat

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 04:39 AM

Wow!!! YOu haven't told me about her! She's beautiful!!! I am so glad you guys have kept her: can you imagine if someone else gave up on her???? It'd be meal time for some European folk! What were you trying to do in the 2nd video? Move her forward? You guys are AMAZING!!!! I would NOT have been brave enough to stick it out! You are so BRAVE!!!
But Miss Kristen, dear, why don't I see a HELMET??? LOL! We want your brain safe to continue to do good deeds like this for other horses! You HAD to know you'd hear that from me!

#16 siiamese

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 06:02 AM

were you asking her to back up or to go forward? she looks confused and the rearing is simply a response to having no where to go to get away from the pressure; the kick comes after even the rearing doesn't get her relief. if you could get slack in the lines when you ask her to go forward and then reel her in after she gets moving, she might stop the other behaviors. she certainly does not look mean spirited.
the thing I notice most with these horses is the total desire to go forward - - and in both videos you are over-restraining her and then she acts up/ she has come a long way for sure and is a talented horse, but you can get further if you make a few changes. (the other is that your hands are way to high when you ride her). I think you all are doing a good job and will look forward to more updates.

#17 Moe

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 06:12 AM

Mitch you are so dang cute. :) I do like MA, but actually, I would love, love, love to pair her up with Erykk when the time is right!

More of her antics...blinkers on so she will have a more difficult time planting a kick...
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqjryMZZZA"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=RJqjryMZZZA[/url]


Oh yeah, I love Erykk too!! That will be an awesome foal!!
She does seem to be thinking very well despite rearing... it's not a frantic rear, just a calm one! :lol: Seriously though, I can see her wheels turning!
Cool stuff!
Mitch

*edited for grammar :blush:*
:lol:
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Mitch Gissinger*


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#18 fyreflii7

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:02 AM

were you asking her to back up or to go forward? she looks confused and the rearing is simply a response to having no where to go to get away from the pressure; the kick comes after even the rearing doesn't get her relief. if you could get slack in the lines when you ask her to go forward and then reel her in after she gets moving, she might stop the other behaviors. she certainly does not look mean spirited.
the thing I notice most with these horses is the total desire to go forward - - and in both videos you are over-restraining her and then she acts up/ she has come a long way for sure and is a talented horse, but you can get further if you make a few changes. (the other is that your hands are way to high when you ride her). I think you all are doing a good job and will look forward to more updates.


Good points. Does she go forward without the draw? I speak from experience (having lost my "go" button on a few horses), that the solution to most problems is to just send them forward in whatever frame they want. Change the subject on them and revisit it later. You would be surprised how much a nice gallop clears a horse's head.

Something else I started doing is adding a lunge line to the cavesson while longlining. Lunge like usual and start taking up the reins and manipulating the horse's frame after they establish forward.

You have a lot of patience, and that will get you very far in training. I'm not trying to give advice or tell you what to do - just sharing things that I've learned from various horses - maybe it will help! Best of luck!

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#19 krissylekrix2001

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 12:11 PM

Kirsten, as you know I have lots of respect for your skills as a horsewoman.My respect just went up to maximum. Working with a difficult, talented horse is the best test of one's skills-you have been persistent, thought outside the box, and kept yourself as safe as possible (month with a trainer when you realized you were out of your depth). Kudos to you and your friend who owns this mare-because this is just the sort of horse people DO give up on that later needs rescuing.BTW, it may NOT be the Hackney that's causing her attitude. *Eter was a tough customer, Don DeLongpre told me plenty of stories about him. *Eter was never shown under saddle because he was so difficult. He sired many broodmares who produced National winners but his own get could be as tough as this mare. Just something to think about as her dam is an *Eter granddaughter. The good trainability of the Huck horses can sometimes be offset by the difficulties with *Eter.Please note I am NOT dissing *Eter. I am simply trying to explain her temperament. I myself owned a mare by a Comet grandson (*Eter is a Comet son) as my first Arabian, and she was very diva like and had her own way of doing things-you didn't dare cross tie her, and her usual reaction to being trailered was to sit down in the driveway like a dog and refuse to move. Dolly also liked to buck and flip people off if she didn't feel like being ridden that day. Like Huck, her dam came from lines noted for good disposition.Comet is a horse I respect in a pedigree for athletic ability. But the temperament issue is there as well.Here is some info on the Huck/*Eter cross from 2008. 2 years ago:The great broodmare sire *ETER sired daughters nicked very well with HUCKLEBERRY BEY++, producing National Champion BEY APERITIF V (dam of U.S. National Champion English Pleasure and English Pleasure AOTR 18-39 THE NOBELEST), LA ATHENA (dam of multi-National Champion Show Hack WA ADONIS+//), HUCKS LUCKY CHARM (dam of ALLISUN+//, a National Champion in show hack, country pleasure, English sidesaddle and native costume), AMBIANCE V (dam of 6 National winners including U.S. Reserve National Champion Mare AOTH CA RUFFLESNLACE), and HUCKLEBERRY HONEY (dam of WA KHORUS GIRL+, a National Champion in western pleasure and western sidesaddle with a junior rider). *ETER sired 15 purebred and Half-Arabian National winners, including the National Champions HOLLY GO LIGHTLY (EVORA’s full sister), U.S. Reserve National Champion Futurity Colt BACK STREET (sire of 6 National Champions including U.S. Reserve National Champion Country Pleasure NH SCARLET STING and U.S. National Champion Mare NH LOVE POTION), U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian Mare AUTUMN FLOWER (dam of multi-National Champion Half-Arabian hunt pleasure FLOWER DRUM+ and U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian Pleasure Driving and twice Canadian National Champion Half-Arabian English Sidesaddle BAYBARY+), Canadian Reserve National Champion Stock Horse DIAMANDD, U.S and Canadian National Champion Half-Arabian Gelding and Pleasure Driving and U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian English Pleasure HECHICERO+++, and U.S. National Champion Half-Arabian Pleasure Driving NDL EVERGREEN. *ETER get have also won National top tens in park AOTR, western pleasure AOTR, working cow horse, native costume, and hunter over fences. 33 *ETER get have produced purebred or Half-Arabian National winners through 2008. His daughter APRIL CHARM is the dam of 6 National winners by HUCKLEBERRY BEY++ or his sons, and the *ETER daughters LADY ETER, AUTUMN FLAIR and ANZA AUTYM SUNSET have all produced National winners by sons of HUCKLEBERRY BEY++.

Arlene, Thank you for the compliment and the wealth of information!!! :)) Interesting info on Eter, I will pass this along to my friend.

I'm going to 2nd Arlene's comment, as I own an Eter daughter and a couple of her daughters. These horses have their own way of thinking, they aren't mean, they are athletic as all he!! but they take time and patience to build their trust in you. Their will to please is not as strong as their will to be right so the last thing you ever want to do is pick a fight with them. Their way of communicating when they don't like or understand something is by throwing a hissy fit. They tend to be very smart and learn quickly, but have the memory of an elephant and will remember things, good and bad forever. That is great when a session goes well, but if you cheese them off it becomes a sticking point. I have always been leary of sending mine out for training, I sent out one to a trainer that has had many in his barn. She did very well with his assistant trainer who was like you and had alot of patience, but I don't think the 'traditional' training methods worked well for her.

This describes her to a tee!

Wow!!! YOu haven't told me about her! She's beautiful!!! I am so glad you guys have kept her: can you imagine if someone else gave up on her???? It'd be meal time for some European folk! What were you trying to do in the 2nd video? Move her forward? You guys are AMAZING!!!! I would NOT have been brave enough to stick it out! You are so BRAVE!!!But Miss Kristen, dear, why don't I see a HELMET??? LOL! We want your brain safe to continue to do good deeds like this for other horses! You HAD to know you'd hear that from me!

I was waiting for that Becky!!! In the second video we were trying to get her to go forward--which she KNEW, but she preferred not to work and stopping and turning towards us wasn't working for her...so she decided to do what she does best when she dislikes a situation: Rear. She did not like going down that wall, and was determined she could veer where ever it was she wished. I had previously walked her all over the place driving from behind, and she had been lounged in the side reins.

were you asking her to back up or to go forward? she looks confused and the rearing is simply a response to having no where to go to get away from the pressure; the kick comes after even the rearing doesn't get her relief. if you could get slack in the lines when you ask her to go forward and then reel her in after she gets moving, she might stop the other behaviors. she certainly does not look mean spirited.the thing I notice most with these horses is the total desire to go forward - - and in both videos you are over-restraining her and then she acts up/ she has come a long way for sure and is a talented horse, but you can get further if you make a few changes. (the other is that your hands are way to high when you ride her). I think you all are doing a good job and will look forward to more updates.

Becky, this is where we started with this mare. I put that video up to illustrate where we started at with her. I should have given a better explanation when I posted it. And that was nothing compared to what she used to do--she was extremely reactive before, here she has settled into calm and deliberate. She had already been lounging in side reins and ground driven, she did not like going down that wall and was going to have her way about it. Anytime she decided she didn't like anything, from brushing to clipping to lounging, whatever, she would do this. She has no problems longlining at this point.

Good points. Does she go forward without the draw? I speak from experience (having lost my "go" button on a few horses), that the solution to most problems is to just send them forward in whatever frame they want. Change the subject on them and revisit it later. You would be surprised how much a nice gallop clears a horse's head.Something else I started doing is adding a lunge line to the cavesson while longlining. Lunge like usual and start taking up the reins and manipulating the horse's frame after they establish forward.You have a lot of patience, and that will get you very far in training. I'm not trying to give advice or tell you what to do - just sharing things that I've learned from various horses - maybe it will help! Best of luck!

Thank you!

#20 siiamese

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:08 PM

so the two videos are sort of in reverse? the riding one is the newer?
good for you that you are taking the time to let her learn at her speed. my park mare was really really freaky when we got her - you could barely keep her in the cross ties to get a saddle on her. my trainer has done such a fabulous job but it has taken time and patience to undo the early work. you can get there too.

here is Twiggy doing her class at regionals a week ago.............doesn't she look happy???
(I think it is ok to post this link as I have purchased the real photo from the photographer)
http://www.ferraraph.../10r12_8318.htm