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Eldans Wotan


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#1 blackpegasusarabianfarm

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 05:11 PM

I'm trying to do some pedigree research for a friend on her race-bred stallion she recently acquired. He is primarily of Polish breeding, with a tiny bit of domestic in there too, I believe. His sire is Eldans Aletan, who is by the Wosk son Eldans Wotan. This particular stallion's pedigree has proven rather difficult for me in terms of research, as nearly every horse in the first four generations is seemly unheard of. Given the fact that I do not have a subscription to the DataSource either, my resources are somewhat limited beyond the use of search engines such as Google.

The horses I am most interested in learning more about are Eldans Wotan and Woskofir. In case anyone is interested, the stallion whom I am researching is Aletan Ben Wosk (Eldans Aletan x Eidans Woska by Woskofir).

Renée Safholm

Hunts Classic Polish Arabians

Home of Farenhyte (Algomej x Fellana by Bandos)
and Celzeus (Goliat x Candela by Etap)


#2 Cyclone

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 05:30 PM

Renee',
I prize Eldans Wotan above almost any other stallion in Pure Polish breeding - most CERTAINLY in my top five of all time. He was never used anywhere NEAR what he should have been and remained in relative obscurity much of his life. He was on a farm in Canada several years back, then was down here in TX or KS? Unfortunately, I did not know he was so close at the time, UGH! Then he ended up his last years with Axel Hinz-Schleuter, back in Canada. My mare, Witnica, is out of one of his top daughters, Blochers Poula. I was not going to rest until I had his blood in my herd and BELIEVE me, I would get another daughter of his in an NYC minute. Roxanna Rogers, in CANADA, has a PP son of his I hope to use in the near future. Here is a pic of him - the horse was nigh flawless and sweet as can be, his owner, Elgin Schier, told me.
post_865_1187361437.jpg

Cyclone

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Home of Pure Polish stallion, Vezanka (*Veza X *Suzanka)

www.beannachtarabianranch.net

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#3 Graustarkian

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 06:16 PM

Eldans Wotan's sire, Wosk, was a full brother to the dam of *Wiking (Wilma). Eldans Wotan's granddam, Chambray, was also dam of KA Czubuthan. KA Czubuthan had a very long career as a race horse and had a lot of heart - I think his website is bigredstud.com. Substance is what comes to mind when I think of Eldan's Wotan and his son, Wotan, owned by Roxanne Rogers (and KA Czubuthan, for that matter). Wotan is half brother to my stallion, Fallkon, and has sired some outstanding fillies for Roxanne.


Kelly Brown

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#4 blackpegasusarabianfarm

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:23 PM

Thanks ML & Kelly! Much obliged for your kind input on the topic, unfortunately all of that is about the sum of what I was able to dig up myself! LOL I'm wishing to hear about show/race records for Wotan's offspring, or if anyone knows anything about his dam Zortana, as I've been unable to find anything much about her, aside from the fact that Roxanne Rogers owned her in her last years.

ML, you may (or may not be) interested to know that the stallion I'm researching lives in TX, owned by the gal who presently has my little Zeus! Her stallion's sire Eldans Aletan is also located somewhere in TX, and I believe he is PP (I could be wrong, though... I'm a little rusty on my pedigrees blush.gif )

Renée Safholm

Hunts Classic Polish Arabians

Home of Farenhyte (Algomej x Fellana by Bandos)
and Celzeus (Goliat x Candela by Etap)


#5 Arlene Magid

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:48 PM

I knew Eldans Wotan back in the 90s when he was owned by a good friend of mine who had cancer and eventually passed away from it. Amazing horse.

I did an 8 generation wall chart pedigree on him. Still have a copy of it.

Not sure why this topic ended up in my section though-did you want me to make comments on his pedigree? I don't have a list handy of all his race winning get (and I would have to charge to look them up)-you might also ask about him in the Polish Arabian Breeders section and in Arabian Research.
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#6 Cyclone

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:39 PM

Woops, had not even noted it was in Arlene's section or I would not have commented here. My mistake!

Cyclone
Beannacht Arabian Ranch

Pure Polish working western and sport horse prospects

Home of Pure Polish stallion, Vezanka (*Veza X *Suzanka)

www.beannachtarabianranch.net

Bronntanas - Animal Communicator

#7 blackpegasusarabianfarm

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:42 PM

I suppose we need to move the topic to the Polish Cafe.

Renée Safholm

Hunts Classic Polish Arabians

Home of Farenhyte (Algomej x Fellana by Bandos)
and Celzeus (Goliat x Candela by Etap)


#8 Azure Arabians

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:11 AM

wowzers that is a cool horse...
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#9 Arlene Magid

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:28 AM

QUOTE (blackpegasusarabianfarm @ Apr 2 2009, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks ML & Kelly! Much obliged for your kind input on the topic, unfortunately all of that is about the sum of what I was able to dig up myself! LOL I'm wishing to hear about show/race records for Wotan's offspring, or if anyone knows anything about his dam Zortana, as I've been unable to find anything much about her, aside from the fact that Roxanne Rogers owned her in her last years.



Renee-

Here is the information on the dam side from the work I did back in 1998, a decade ago-so none of it is anywhere near current, alas. I am hand typing this in from an 8 generation pedigree-it's usually a lot easier for me if people want me to post something done in word processing format (the pedigrees are wall chart sized and hand printed). I am also including a chunk of research I did on KA CZUBUTHAN from his website (he is the maternal brother to Eldan Wotan's dam). I hope this meets your needs. As I told you in PM, I was not asked at the time to do the race records on Wotan's get so perhaps someone else who has Datasource can get those for you.

Zortana-dam of 1991 U.S. Top Ten Gelding TQ Intruder. Paternal sister to Amurath Czortana (dam of US. Top Ten Stock Horse WS Basko), Amurath Czorteba (dam of 2 National winners NOTE THIS IS NO LONGER TRUE-I BELIEVE SHE ENDED UP WITH 10 CHAMPIONS) and Bandeira (dam of U.S. Top Ten Hunt Pleasure Grande Bandeira)

*Czortan-1973 Region 6 Top Five Stallion, sire of 5 National winners including U.S. and Canadian Top Ten Stallion and English Pleasure and National Champion sire Gazort++ and U.S. Reserve National Champion Informal Combination Trosk.

*Czortan is by Czort-race record 4/19 (13-5-1) 2 x AP-Czort also sired U.S. National Champion Stallion *El Paso, lots of info on the net on Czort.

*Czortan is out of *Mortissa race record 1/5 (1-0-1) dam of National Champion producer Mortraska and of Marushka (dam of 2 producers of National winners).

Chambray, dam of Zortana:

Sire Toltec is a maternal brother to Halali Tamarisk (dam of U.S. and Canadian Top Ten Show Hack and Hunt Pleasure Ammadeus+/ and National winner producers Traditio and Dansel Maya).

Chambray's dam side (taken from pedigree of KA Czubuthan)-please v isit the site for KA Czubuthan here (he was a superb racehorse and I wish he was found more in today's racehorse bloodlines):

http://www.bigredstud.com/

2nd dam: Cashmere

Cashmere - *Czubuthan x *Kasmira
Chestnut mare
Bred by J.M. Dickinson and foaled in 1947


*Czubuthan - Dzingisham III x Ryfka
Grey stallion; height 15 hands; weight, 1025 pounds; girth, 73 inches; cannon bone circumference, 7 1/2 inches

7th Dam: Gazella, a desert-bred Kehilet Ajuz imported to Poland in 1845 by Count Julius Dzieduszycki.

*CZUBUTHAN raced two seasons as a 3- and 4-year-old. Out of 17 starts, he won 6, was second 8 times, third 3 times, never unplaced; and in two of his second places he was in effect the Arabian winner, for those races were won by Anglo-Arabs. The second largest Arabian winner in Poland, he won the Minister o Agriculture S. at about 2 miles, which offered the second largest purse in Poland. In this race he defeated the record holder at Polish Arabian Derby distance. Czubuthan was not a sprinter. Although he won at a mile, his principle races were at a 1 1/2 miles and over.

A horse of classic Arabian type and good size, he is of well balanced conformation and characterized by strong clean bone and good muscular development. A breeder of thoroughbreds with wide experience throughout the country, periodically visited Czubuthan at Travelers Rest because, as he said, "he has the finest set of legs I have ever laid my eyes upon."

*Czubuthan's grandsire was Hermit, a desert-bred stallion characterized as having been the best imported into Poland in this century before the first World War. He was bought in Bombay in 1910 by Count Wladysslaw Dzieduszycki. After serving two years on the latter's stud Jesupol, Hermit was sold to the Austrian State Stud at Radautz in Bukovina, dating from 1792.

In consequence of the great destruction of World War I, Hermit left buy two sons which figured in the pedigrees of Polish Arabians, including Dzingishan III. Through his daughter Hebda, however, he contributed successful female lines, including her son Kaszmir (see below). Hermit's daughter Dabrowka produced the celebrated mare Uteiba that was sold to the Estonian Government.

In his female line, *Czubuthan traces seven generations to the desert-bred Gazella, a Kehilet Ajuz imported to Poland in 1845 by Count Julius Dzieduszycki. He combines not only the blood of Hermit and Gazella, but also traces to many of the best known Arabians in Polish horse history and in part to horses bred at Babolna in Hungary. He has been used to a greater extent than any Travelers Rest stallion, and his get have been widely sought.



3rd Dam
*Kasmira - Kaszmir x *Ba-ida
Grey mare; height, 15.1 hands; weight, 1100 pounds; girth, 76 inches
Imported in utero and foaled at Travelers Rest in 1939


9th Dam: Milecha, a desert bred Kwhilwh Dajanieh mare, imported to Poland in 1845 by Count Julius Dzieduszycki. *Kasmira and her dam were both sired by Polish Arabian Derby winners. *Ba-ida was undefeated at 1 1/8 miles and was one of the five fastest Arabian mares of record in Poland at that distance.

*Kasmira was sired by KASZMIR, the most celebrated Arabian stallion in Poland at the beginning of World War II. In addition to his Derby victory, he was victorious in the Polish Criterium three times. He won at a variety of distances and held the Arabian mile record with a time of 1:47.50. He was confiscated by the Germans during World War II and assigned to head the Polish Second Remount Depot in Schleswig-Holstein.



4th Dam
*Ba-Ida - Flisak x Pomponia II
Chestnut mare; height 14.3 1/2 hands; weight, 1050 pounds; girth 75 inches
Bred at Pelkine by Prince Witold Czartoryski and foaled in 1932


*Ba-ida is a daughter of Polish Derby winner FLISAK. She herself was a very successful race horse compiling a record of 1/11(3-4-1). She was undefeated at 1 1/8 miles and one of the five fastest Arabian mares of record in Poland at that distance. She is also a sister to Cemira, a leading money earner in 1936-37, and half-sister to winners Celedir, Certuma and Bakhtiari, leading money earner in Poland in 1938.

*Ba-ida represents not only the blood identified with Pelkinie and the studs of the Count Dziedusczycki, but also carries the blood of the Slawuta and Antoniny Studs. Her sire was grandson of Ibrahim, that got Showronek, and so she is also related to some of the best-known Arabians in England and the United States. He was the leading sire of winning Arabians in Poland in 1938.

Her dam, Poponia II also produced the celebrated stallion El Haifi. This horse was confiscated by the Germans in World War II and stood at Debica.

*Ba-ida was a beautifully balanced mare of great quality and substance, and a proven producer of first class colts. Her son, Bandos, was a prize winner in the Northern California District fair in 1941; her son Baguio was exported to Columbia, South America, in 1945; and her son Bataan went to the United States Remount Service.
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#10 Graustarkian

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:22 AM

Renee - Eldans Wotan sired very athletic horses, but in none of my reading have I encountered his offspring being successful on the track (I've got a library of Finish Line magazines and giant binders of all the horses who raced, with pedigrees for each and their race record - forget what they're titled and they're buried in my closet). He certainly never made any of the leading sires lists that I have poured over - be it directly as sire or as broodmare sire. I recall someone telling about a son of his on the track who was nicknamed "turtle" cool.gif They are very suited to sporthorse/working western, though.
Kelly Brown

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