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Speed blood in Arabs?


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#1 KizmetRanch

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:16 PM

Short self intro:
First of all, I apologize by being a noob and barging in here with strange questions. Second of all, I'm not sure if I'm in the right place for the question, so if I'm not please kindly redirect me.
I don't intend to stay long, I was just suddenly struck with some questions that I thought only some of the most well-informed Arab people would know. My knowledge of Arabians is basic at best... My general horse-crazy attitude was passed down from my dad, who owned and bred a few Arabians when he was in his early twenties. When I was around 10 years old I took lessons on an Arabian mare named Portacall. My first horse was an Arabian mare named Sayko, whom I owned for 7 years until she was put down on March 1st of this year.
That's pretty much my extent of experience with Arabians. So, please be patient with me and take it slow. Any horse mentioned beyond Witez, Raffles, Bask, Khemosabi, Bey Shah, Fadjur, the Varian Arabians, and a few others... I don't have a clue.
Also, I love pictures, so if you're trying to explain something or mention a horse, please feel free *cough*heavilyencouraged*cough* to post pictures of them.

Now that that's covered, on to business...

Basic, basic Arabian history. My impression is that the Arabians were mainly used to run across deserts on little food and little water. They were basically "endurance horses." Now's the time to correct me if I'm wrong. So, if they were used as "endurance" horses, was speed important in the breed?
Now, we all know that every major breed has been specialized into their own little disciplines. In Arabians, there's basically the halter horse, the performance horse, and the racing horse, all of which are very different and have different conformational preferences.
What is the general concensus of "speed blood"? Is it important to the breed? Is it important to help improve the breed? Does the "old" speed blood influence modern show Arabians?

Let's just start with that. I'm sure more questions will arise.

Thanks guys!

#2 huntseat

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:42 PM

I'm sorry, I don't think I have the answer you're looking for, I know very little about racing bloodlines, but my little halter/performance bred (lots of big trotting park and english lines) mare is FAST. We took up gaming just as something to do for fun over the winter when we weren't showing hunter and it turns out that she's as good a barrel horse as she is a hunter pleasure horse. I'm not sure where the speed came from, but she can outrun, both endurance-wise and speed-wise a few friends' off the track Thoroughbreds. I would love to learn as much as I can about Arabian racing and racing lines and try to figure out whether my mare was a fluke or if there's something in the genetics.

PROUD OWNER OF
August Melody
(August Bey V x Hear the Music by MS Santana)
Arabians: Everything else is just a horse


#3 KizmetRanch

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 08:55 PM

QUOTE (huntseat @ Nov 28 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sorry, I don't think I have the answer you're looking for, I know very little about racing bloodlines, but my little halter/performance bred (lots of big trotting park and english lines) mare is FAST. We took up gaming just as something to do for fun over the winter when we weren't showing hunter and it turns out that she's as good a barrel horse as she is a hunter pleasure horse. I'm not sure where the speed came from, but she can outrun, both endurance-wise and speed-wise a few friends' off the track Thoroughbreds. I would love to learn as much as I can about Arabian racing and racing lines and try to figure out whether my mare was a fluke or if there's something in the genetics.


Be prepared to sport your mare's pedigree, because that's what my questions are all about, pretty much.

I'm looking forward to some answers too.

#4 huntseat

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 09:29 PM

QUOTE (KizmetRanch @ Nov 28 2008, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Be prepared to sport your mare's pedigree, because that's what my questions are all about, pretty much.

I'm looking forward to some answers too.


Here's her pedigree. August Bey V +++\\ x Hear the Music. Dad was a reserve nat'l park champion and I believe he had some bit halter wins as well.

Most of her paternal siblings are successful country, english, and driving horses. I owned her half sister who could trot like you wouldn't believe but couldn't get very far very fast wink.gif She went UP, not forward.

PROUD OWNER OF
August Melody
(August Bey V x Hear the Music by MS Santana)
Arabians: Everything else is just a horse


#5 KizmetRanch

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 02:47 PM

Nobody's got a clue? Really? I was told that this was a pretty active forum with really knowledgeable members. Were they wrong? Or am I posting in the wrong place?

#6 Nitter_Pitter

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 03:38 PM

Your question is pretty general really- and the answer boils down to the individual breeder/rider. My stallion (CH Ali Khan) has been in many a drag race on trail with QH's w/a spi of 90+ - and won! Now, my daughter's little mare (Dreamscape CT) has been known to out run my stallion after she bucks my daughter off and heads for home. I would say between the 2 of them Dream prob has more racing blood behind her if your looking at her "modern" breeding....but the stud has more stamina, flattens out when he runs and can last over a long run. The filly runs with her head up and back hollowed.....wouldn't make a great race horse there.

But seriously, maybe the way you present your question opens it up for a plethora of answers that no one really has b/c the average horse owner just trail rides, the above average (lol) owner shows and the exceptional owner races.
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#7 Slide

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 03:41 PM

I looked at August Bey V a few years ago. He's sired some amazing show horses in the English divisions, including August Engine. He's a lovely stallion with a very good temperament.

Arabians are slow compared to Thoroughbreds over short distances (under 3 miles or so), but they are faster in general at long distances 25-100 miles or more. As for which stallions are siring top racehorses, it would be best to do research on the Arabian Jockey Club site or through equibase.com and datasource. These stallions would be the proven horses passing on speed.

There is an inverse relationship between Speed and Distance. This is demonstrated by the average times in Thoroughbred racing at their various distances. Horses running 6 furlongs are faster than horses running a mile and a half.

Speed would have been important to the Bedouins. Think about the emphasis we put on fast cars in our modern culture. The bedouins would at times need to outrun their neighboring tribesmen, and they also raced their horses for sport. The best think to do to REALLY research this is to contact the WK Kellogg library at Cal Poly Pomona, they can give you a bibliography of books that would contain information about Bedouin culture and their horses.

I think your questions are a little bit vague as to what you're referring to as speed blood. Are you looking for specific horses in a pedigree that a known for passing on speed?

Hope this helps a little bit.

Sarah





#8 KizmetRanch

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE (Nitter_Pitter @ Nov 29 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But seriously, maybe the way you present your question opens it up for a plethora of answers that no one really has b/c the average horse owner just trail rides, the above average (lol) owner shows and the exceptional owner races.


Well... I would kind of have to disagree. The average horse owner may only trail ride, but they're completely open to research as much about their breed as they possibly can -- or as they want to.

I think I need to talk to the "above average" and "exceptional" owners, as they're probably going to take more pride in their breed and be more educated in it (talking stereotypically). And if that's the case, where can I find these people to talk to, if not this board?

Like I said, I won't stay long. I essentially have one question, and to me it's not important enough to go pouring through the Arabian breed history in five hundred million books and ten zillion different websites when it's not really my thing.

#9 Nitter_Pitter

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:39 PM

QUOTE (KizmetRanch @ Nov 29 2008, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well... I would kind of have to disagree. The average horse owner may only trail ride, but they're completely open to research as much about their breed as they possibly can -- or as they want to.

I think I need to talk to the "above average" and "exceptional" owners, as they're probably going to take more pride in their breed and be more educated in it (talking stereotypically). And if that's the case, where can I find these people to talk to, if not this board?

Like I said, I won't stay long. I essentially have one question, and to me it's not important enough to go pouring through the Arabian breed history in five hundred million books and ten zillion different websites when it's not really my thing.



That is an interesting statement to be sure. LOL! You seem very rude for someone that is asking such a vague question wanting specific answers.


"All the little horses lived in the herd, save for one, a perfect little stallion called Nitter Pitter." Taken from Nitter Pitter by Stephen Cosgrove

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#10 Bri-Sha Arabians

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:39 PM

First off If you think that this forum was the wrong one then you can as the Webmaster to put it into the arabian cafe forum, there you will get alot more response, maybe one's you wont like too!!

We have bred and raised arabians for 27 or so years. We have domestic,polish and Straight Egyptian lines. They all orignate from Desert bred horse's. If you are asking about speed blood, then look to the Polish bred horse line's. you can go to the arabian data source and search out specific dates, parents registries, etc...

In our polish lines we have Europejczyk (pronounced:euor pay check). The Pasb registry were the one's breeding more for racing and before the war's all horses must qualify and have racing behind the blood line to be bred and continue the lines. Now days arabian racing needs more people to get involved as there is quite a bit of money to be had. The races usually consist of between 5-9 horses each race sometimes more maybe less. There was an article in one of the horsey magazines a while back: the article was about a man who had a family pet , he took it to a race and it won... so to some degree I think and believe that all arab's since they are hot blooded have the ability to race. And with proper training can and will win...
Good luck on your search, if you could be more specific as to what you are asking you may get more responses.



---------------------------
Bri Sha Arabians



POLISH

SIR LEEO ALADD AHR*615860 ( LEEONARDO x PAF LEXA ( PHOENIX DV ) Co-owned

SWEET LIBERTY CS AHR*607193 ( DA VINCI CS x ALLEXUS SC ( DWD TABASCO)


EGYPTIAN

DA SERR RASHAD AHR*599525 ( SERR SERABAAR x RAVENWOOD KISMAT ( SONIMONIET RSI )

BSA KAILIMA EL AMIIRA AHR*636942 ( SAAREEF x BINT KAISINA ( IMPERIAL IMOHAAN )


DOMESTIC

FIRECZYKS ASHCAR INAM AHR*631659 ( SWF EUROS FIRE x SELSHA ( SELFFAR ) Daughters ride